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Tourer
Posts: 499
Chattanooga, TN | Ok guys. Thought it was time to start a survey related to oil usage and clutch slippage cause I know there are plenty of you out there who have used amsoil in the past and know and love it. I used it in my old Harley regularly and with over 50k miles(which is a lot for a Harley!) and had identical compression results before selling it.
Let's keep it simple and with as few deviations as possible so statistically the results will tell us what some of us really want to know, which is "Is it a good alternative to MaVic oil?" The objective is not to consider all engine/oil/exhaust/mapping possibilities. Adding extra responses will make it a little more difficult to track, so try to put it into one of the six categories.
Used Amsoil 20-50 Motorcycle Oil regularly without clutch slippage 100 ci and up Used Amsoil 20-50 Motorcycle Oil frequently until clutch slippage 100 ci and up Used Amsoil 20-50 Motorcycle Oil once until clutch slippage 100 ci and up Used Amsoil 10-40 Motorcycle Oil regularly without clutch slippage 100 ci and up Used Amsoil 10-40 Motorcycle Oil frequently until clutch slippage 100 ci and up Used Amsoil 10-40 Motorcycle Oil once until clutch slippage 100 ci and up I realize that not everyone has the larger engines, but feel it would be best to look at the biggest powerplants made by Victory as they may be more prone to slippage due to more power/torque. Feel free to start a separate survey for the 92 cu engines if you like so as not to dilute the answers into too many sub-categories. If absolutely necessary, you may add a category and this questionnaire may need to be revamped, but I'd like t see where people fall into these 6 categories. This data will extrapolate/extend data for users of the 92 ci engines even though excluded from responding. Maybe with enough responses, we can make good independent decisions for ourselves justified by the answers submitted. THANKS FOR YOUR RESPONSES AND MAY THE RESULTS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES! |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 880
Orlando, FL | To me it doesn;t matter if you used it once or a hundred times til you have clutch slip. BOttom line is that Amsoil has caused clutch slip in Vic's 106. |
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Visionary
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Pittsburgh, PA | id be curious to see what amsoil might say if you emailed them about this... cant hurt.. |
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Tourer
Posts: 499
Chattanooga, TN | Good point, Max. Which is why I excluded myself from the respondents since I used it twice but not regularly without clutch slippage. I'd like to see how many people regularly use it without slippage vs those who discontinued use due to slippage. Of those who discontinued usage, did they use it once, our frequently |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | There's got to be more going on with this clutch slipping issue than the oil being used.
Kawasaki had clutch issues a few years back, and many people blamed synthetic oil. I believe the issue was finally determined to be weakening springs and/or clutch adjustment. The oil had nothing to do with it.
For the record. I've been using Amsoil in two Victory bikes for 12+ years and have never had a clutch slipping issue. I've had my Vision to the dragstrip and no clutch slipping.
The poll doesn't include the oil I use. I use the regular 20W-50 motor oil http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/aro.aspx , not the MC specific oil. It is also JASO-MA rated, and is a little less expensive than the MC oil. As I recall, Amsoil didn't offer a MC specific oil when I started using it. The regular stuff has worked fine and I've stuck with it.
Ronnie |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | More oil threads, love it. This will probably be my last input on the topic as I have drawn a full conclusion in oil choices. One, it is not likely that I'll ever put a full synthetic back into any bike I own unless specified by the manufacturer. I realize with a full synthectic you can't have it both ways, slippery and sticky, that a semi-blend can offer. Whether it is general wear of the plates or the clutch springs, my bike had begun slipping the clutch on hard take offs and hard roll ons using a full synthetic. I have gone back to a semi-syn blend, and yes it MaVic oil. I will try the Rotella T5, but I doubt I'll be disappointed. My goal is to extend the life of my bike components by using the proper lubricants, components and loads. So far, I've been very satisfied with the results, bone stock from tire to grease.
I'll step aside for now... |
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Cruiser
Posts: 94
milwaukee wisconsin | i have been useing ams oil for years in both my vics never had any slippage you might want to check you'r clutch adjustment !! |
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Cruiser
Posts: 161
Tampa, Fl United States | What clutch adjustment??? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 71
Willmar, MN | So if I use it regularly for 100,000 mile and the clutch starts slipping at 102,000....it's amsoil's fault? I really don't think that is the case. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | rf43mn - 2012-05-06 7:47 PM
So if I use it regularly for 100,000 mile and the clutch starts slipping at 102,000....it's amsoil's fault? I really don't think that is the case.
honestly i was just saying the samething to myself.... if AMSOIL didnt "cause" slipping in 100,000 miles how is it amsoils fault all the sudden? lol if the Seriously used clutch components all the sudden work better with a non-sythetic oil does that really mean anything... example honda accord V6 have serious tranmission issues... alot of people on their forums went to racing trany fluid and other synthetic fluid trany fluids to "help" the trany shift better and "last longer" but guess what.... in the end they all still failed..... No oil will be the lquid wrench to "fix" a issue. it may provide a buffer of relief but in the end the tranys on the accords were doing this for a reason and the reason wasnt the fluid..... just saying.... |
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Visionary
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Pittsburgh, PA | rdbudd - 2012-05-06 12:11 PM
There's got to be more going on with this clutch slipping issue than the oil being used.
Kawasaki had clutch issues a few years back, and many people blamed synthetic oil. I believe the issue was finally determined to be weakening springs and/or clutch adjustment. The oil had nothing to do with it.
For the record. I've been using Amsoil in two Victory bikes for 12+ years and have never had a clutch slipping issue. I've had my Vision to the dragstrip and no clutch slipping.
The poll doesn't include the oil I use. I use the regular 20W-50 motor oil http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/aro.aspx , not the MC specific oil. It is also JASO-MA rated, and is a little less expensive than the MC oil. As I recall, Amsoil didn't offer a MC specific oil when I started using it. The regular stuff has worked fine and I've stuck with it.
Ronnie
hey rdbudd i said the same thing today! i used to be a die hard kawasaki person. one of my friends had the 1500 classic withthe clutch spring issue. but back then no one knew there was a Issue... they all blamed the oil. it took years until someone found out if you replaced the springs with Meanstreak springs the clutch Stopped slipping! one of my friends did the same thing.. juggled back and forth between brandA and Brand B oils convinced it was the oils fault.. it would shift nice for a while then all the sudden come back. but after he replaced the weak springs he never had that issue again... on the kawasaki forums there were guys that had a bike with low miles that had the springs be weak. or Not properly installed to Spec. (which kaw was known for!) |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 29
| Amsoil??????................................What's Amsoil? |
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Tourer
Posts: 499
Chattanooga, TN | The results are interesting so far, anyone else with or without clutch slippage using Amsoil? I thought for sure more people had this problem by the discussions previously posted on this website. So far it appears nobody who used the recommended 10W-40 Amsoil had slippage, but the results for 20W-50 appear to show that 2 of every 3 people who used it once or regularly had slippage. Obviously, the reporting is on the honor system, but could benefit all Victory Riders who like Amsoil, so please keep voting to those who have not yet done so, and a big "Thank You, Hell Yeah!" to those who did! I did notice that I left out those who used it once or infrequently without slippage, so this isn't scientific by any means.
Edited by baadawg 2012-05-07 6:51 PM
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Visionary
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New Bohemia, VA | keep in mind this is entirely subjective and not conclusive. One would have to poll every single user of all blends of AMSOIL and document each condition, age and mileage of the bike to draw any close conclusion. I was one to say AMSOIL, no, wait, full synthectic oils were okay. But after some miles on the bike and wear is taking place in both components and plates, I was getting slippage. Now that I've gone back to the recommended semi-synthetic blend, I'm not having any issue. I'm hoping to get another 90,000 miles out of my clutch using the proper blend. It was very doubtful I would using a full synthetic. When the clutch starts slipping with the semi blend I will know it is time for a new clutch. By the way, I have rode the bike in a few parades and have practise many times within the friction zone. I'm also hard on take off and roll-ons, all of which puts the clutch to the test. It is doubtful that anyone using a full synthetic who drives with general decency will ever experience clutch slippage for a long time. So before you draw a full conclusion, consider all the factors and not just by a show of hands. |
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Tourer
Posts: 373
Lansing, MI |
Also, keep in mind the difference in how people ride. I beat the hell out of my V just like I did my Vegas and with Amsoil the clutch slipped. I think if you ride your Vic like an poky doky it'll be fine, it's the people who ride 'em hard that are mainly the ones who will have this problem...
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Visionary
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New Bohemia, VA | cook06vegas - 2012-05-07 11:11 PM Also, keep in mind the difference in how people ride. I beat the hell out of my V just like I did my Vegas and with Amsoil the clutch slipped. I think if you ride your Vic like an poky doky it'll be fine, it's the people who ride 'em hard that are mainly the ones who will have this problem... +1 I'm bone stock but I can stay on the hind-end of someone who is cammed and gettin' down, I just have to run it in gear alittle longer. The thing is, that is the way I ride anyways, I just can't find myself going back to poky doky...  |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | interesting how this has turned out "so far".. basically the ones with clutch slippage didnt Follow the Owners Manual.. in my 08 & 11 owners manual is no part of it does it say you are Ok to use w50 of any type, be it regular or synthetic oil. also noticed the people who did follow the owners manual including myself are not a part of the people claiming clutch slippage.
Edited by Arkainzeye 2012-05-13 10:51 AM
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Cruiser
Posts: 98
Santa Maria CA | have used lucas 20w50 syn motorcycle oil since 800 mile oil change..............now over 65,000 miles, no problem, lower oil temp by about 20deg |
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Visionary
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Pittsburgh, PA | docvtx - 2012-05-13 10:33 AM
have used lucas 20w50 syn motorcycle oil since 800 mile oil change..............now over 65,000 miles, no problem, lower oil temp by about 20deg
you got LOWER temps from using a thicker oil???? there is a reason why victory decreased the size of their oil coolers. Over cooling is just as bad as oil that is too hot in a engine.. oil needs to reach a set temp in order to "burn off" condensation among other things.
Edited by Arkainzeye 2012-05-13 10:46 AM
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Tourer
Posts: 499
Chattanooga, TN | Arkainzeye - 2012-05-13 11:28 AM interesting how this has turned out "so far".. basically the ones with clutch slippage didnt Follow the Owners Manual.. in my 08 & 11 owners manual is no part of it does it say you are Ok to use w50 of any type, be it regular or synthetic oil. also noticed the people who did follow the owners manual including myself are not a part of the people claiming clutch slippage. +1 That's what I've been wondering and it seems evident from the poll so far, especially since Amsoil specifically recommends 10W-40 for Victory motorcycles. I think the 20W-50 may be quieter, in my own experience, theoretically giving more "cushion" between the moving metal parts(when the oil is present) but also contributing to some slippage for the same reason. |
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Visionary
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Pittsburgh, PA | baadawg - 2012-05-13 10:43 AM
Arkainzeye - 2012-05-13 11:28 AM interesting how this has turned out "so far".. basically the ones with clutch slippage didnt Follow the Owners Manual.. in my 08 & 11 owners manual is no part of it does it say you are Ok to use w50 of any type, be it regular or synthetic oil. also noticed the people who did follow the owners manual including myself are not a part of the people claiming clutch slippage. +1 That's what I've been wondering and it seems evident from the poll so far, especially since Amsoil specifically recommends 10W-40 for Victory motorcycles. I think the 20W-50 may be quieter, in my own experience, theoretically giving more "cushion" between the moving metal parts(when the oil is present) but also contributing to some slippage for the same reason.
+1 that would be like me complaining about the Vision's brakes when i changed the brake fluid with the wrong Type and now they dont work like before....
Edited by Arkainzeye 2012-05-13 11:10 AM
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Visionary
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Jasper, MO | Hmmm. 71% have had NO slipping with any Amsoil. 29% report issues with the 20W50 MC specific oil. There are 0% with issues with the 10W40 MC oil.
I've had no problems with either the 20W50 or the 10W40, but I don't use the MC oil, using instead the regular Amsoil motor oil, which wasn't an option in this poll. On face value of this poll so far, the only problems reported are with the MC 20W50.
I'm sticking with the regular Amsoil. It's worked for me in Victorys for the past 12 or 13 years.
Ronnie |
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Visionary
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Pittsburgh, PA | rdbudd - 2012-05-13 11:08 AM
Hmmm. 71% have had NO slipping with any Amsoil. 29% report issues with the 20W50 MC specific oil. There are 0% with issues with the 10W40 MC oil.
I've had no problems with either the 20W50 or the 10W40, but I don't use the MC oil, using instead the regular Amsoil motor oil, which wasn't an option in this poll. On face value of this poll so far, the only problems reported are with the MC 20W50.
I'm sticking with the regular Amsoil. It's worked for me in Victorys for the past 12 or 13 years.
Ronnie
the reason why the poll was for MC oil is (my guess) mc oil claims to Not slip with clutches.. but you made a even better example. your using oil that not even for a motorcycle so it could very well have friction modifiers and your clutch is NOT slipping.. i personally dont think all of our clutches are the same... yeah same part numbers, but like other peoples vision that have the same part numbers but their parts failed while others have not be it sensors, bearings or what ever.. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 208
Edmonton Alberta, Canada | I finnaly changed from victory oil to Amsoil 20w50 at 36000km, today I have 43500km which is 7500km. Was out yesterday with my buddy on a custom chopper, We rode hard and made many hard accerations ( raced from stop signs or corners) with no clutch slippage. I notice the tranny a quieter but is now over one year since running Vic oil and won't say with out doubt that it is still quieter. I did not miss gears, and never once had a problem finding neutral. When running the vic oil, first one at 800km by dealer, then everyone after that at 5000km by myself (Iam cheap, what can i say)! At $100.00 pre kit I had purchased 5 kits =500.00 + one filter = 6 oilchanges with the extra quart from each kit.
On vic oil at 50% or 2500 km the gear indicator would start acting up, and neutral would become hard to find. I personally will only ever run vic oil only in a new bike off the show room floor, and the 800 km change, from there on out I will only run Amsoil. as far as this oil change goes, I have the oil and filter, however unless I have any issues, I hope to make it to 10000 km which for you Americans would be 6200 miles.
I am happy with Amsoil and will not be trying anything other unless I experiance problems! I am not comparing to any other oil than Victory oil!
Just my opinion
Norcan |
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Visionary
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Pittsburgh, PA | norcan - 2012-05-13 6:03 PM
I finnaly changed from victory oil to Amsoil 20w50 at 36000km, today I have 43500km which is 7500km. Was out yesterday with my buddy on a custom chopper, We rode hard and made many hard accerations ( raced from stop signs or corners) with no clutch slippage. I notice the tranny a quieter but is now over one year since running Vic oil and won't say with out doubt that it is still quieter. I did not miss gears, and never once had a problem finding neutral. When running the vic oil, first one at 800km by dealer, then everyone after that at 5000km by myself (Iam cheap, what can i say)! At $100.00 pre kit I had purchased 5 kits =500.00 + one filter = 6 oilchanges with the extra quart from each kit.
On vic oil at 50% or 2500 km the gear indicator would start acting up, and neutral would become hard to find. I personally will only ever run vic oil only in a new bike off the show room floor, and the 800 km change, from there on out I will only run Amsoil. as far as this oil change goes, I have the oil and filter, however unless I have any issues, I hope to make it to 10000 km which for you Americans would be 6200 miles.
I am happy with Amsoil and will not be trying anything other unless I experiance problems! I am not comparing to any other oil than Victory oil!
Just my opinion
just wondering what year is your vision? i would like to see a poll as to not only what oil and weight . but maybe even WHAT YEAR visions this is happening on?
Norcan |
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Visionary
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Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | Arkainzeye - 2012-05-13 11:38 AM
docvtx - 2012-05-13 10:33 AM
have used lucas 20w50 syn motorcycle oil since 800 mile oil change..............now over 65,000 miles, no problem, lower oil temp by about 20deg
you got LOWER temps from using a thicker oil???? there is a reason why victory decreased the size of their oil coolers. Over cooling is just as bad as oil that is too hot in a engine.. oil needs to reach a set temp in order to "burn off" condensation among other things.
Lower temps are more likely caused by the lack of heat energy to the oil, and a test of the hard parts would most likely show either the same or increased temp. As for oil weight causing any significant change in temp. That is not going to make any difference. Unless the viscosity is dramatically changed to something like 70-90 |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | kevinx - 2012-05-13 6:16 PM
Arkainzeye - 2012-05-13 11:38 AM
docvtx - 2012-05-13 10:33 AM
have used lucas 20w50 syn motorcycle oil since 800 mile oil change..............now over 65,000 miles, no problem, lower oil temp by about 20deg
you got LOWER temps from using a thicker oil???? there is a reason why victory decreased the size of their oil coolers. Over cooling is just as bad as oil that is too hot in a engine.. oil needs to reach a set temp in order to "burn off" condensation among other things.
Lower temps are more likely caused by the lack of heat energy to the oil, and a test of the hard parts would most likely show either the same or increased temp. As for oil weight causing any significant change in temp. That is not going to make any difference. Unless the viscosity is dramatically changed to something like 70-90
+1 |
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Cruiser
Posts: 208
Edmonton Alberta, Canada | Re: Arkainzeye
2008 Vicotry Vision TP
one other thing, I failed to mention, 5 quarts Amsoil, and Wix filter = $65.00 |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | norcan - 2012-05-13 7:37 PM
Re: Arkainzeye
2008 Vicotry Vision TP
one other thing, I failed to mention, 5 quarts Amsoil, and Wix filter = $65.00
holy crap you pay $15 for oil filter? my napa guy charges $9 a qt for amsoil 10w40 $0.50 more for 20w50 and the filter i get for $7 then since i dont use all 5 qts i save the other 1/2 for the next oil change then i buy 4qts. =) |
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Cruiser
Posts: 208
Edmonton Alberta, Canada | Yes our Canadian dollar is par, however most companies still facter a exchange rate into pricing as does Victory/Polaris! US oilchange kit is 50 -60 and in canada we pay 100! Std replacment windshield is 189 us and 375 Canadian. Our dealers wonder why we complain or shop south of the boarder, I can have it shipped for 40
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Visionary
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Jasper, MO | Arkainzeye - 2012-05-13 11:22 AM
rdbudd - 2012-05-13 11:08 AM
Hmmm. 71% have had NO slipping with any Amsoil. 29% report issues with the 20W50 MC specific oil. There are 0% with issues with the 10W40 MC oil.
I've had no problems with either the 20W50 or the 10W40, but I don't use the MC oil, using instead the regular Amsoil motor oil, which wasn't an option in this poll. On face value of this poll so far, the only problems reported are with the MC 20W50.
I'm sticking with the regular Amsoil. It's worked for me in Victorys for the past 12 or 13 years.
Ronnie
the reason why the poll was for MC oil is (my guess) mc oil claims to Not slip with clutches.. but you made a even better example. your using oil that not even for a motorcycle so it could very well have friction modifiers and your clutch is NOT slipping.. i personally dont think all of our clutches are the same... yeah same part numbers, but like other peoples vision that have the same part numbers but their parts failed while others have not be it sensors, bearings or what ever..
This has really gotten my curiosity up, since I and many others have used Amsoil for a long time without clutch problems. Amsoil makes a wide variety of lubricants and they are aimed at specific applications or groups of applications. I've been studying the spec sheets.
Amsoil 20W-50 MOTORCYCLE oil is specified for HD, Buell, KTM, Ducati, BMW, Triumph, or any bike that calls for 15W-50 or 20W-50. Victory isn't on that list and calls for 20W-40. Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, and Kawasaki aren't on the list either. Amsoil points out that this oil has special additives for better performance in air cooled motorcycles that operate at high temperatures, IE, Harley Davidson.
Amsoil 10W-40 MOTORCYCLE oil is specified for Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha, Suzuki, Husqvarna, VICTORY, or any bike that calls for a 10W-40 or 20W-40.
Amsoil Premium Synthetic, in both 10W-40 and 20W-50 (these are what I have always used) isn't specified for any particular motorcycle brand, but is JASO-MA rated and recommended for, and I quote, "Amsoil Premium Synthetic Oil contains NO FRICTION MODIFIERS, making it ideal for motorcycles, maintenance equipment, and other wet clutch applications. It is formulated to prevent clutch glazing and slippage. It helps to ensure smooth clutch engagement and long term dependability of operation. It reduces clutch wear and extends transmission life".
It 's pretty obvious from reading the applications sheets on all these different types of Amsoil, that the 20W-50 MOTORCYCLE oil is NOT recommended for Victory, Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, or Kawasaki bikes. The 10W-40 motorcycle, the 10W-40 Premium Synthetic, and even the 20W-50 Premium Synthetic formulations are recommended.
Some folks have just been using the wrong type of Amsoil, in particular the 20W-50MCV, which is aimed primarily at the Harley Davidson market.
Saying that Amsoil, generically, will cause clutch problems is pretty far fetched and short sighted. Especially for those folks who've never used it themselves, but go around repeating the claim anyway. Use the right one and live long and prosper.
Ronnie
Edited by rdbudd 2012-06-20 12:05 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Are we having fun yet? rdbudd, you make a fine point. I was using a full synthetic for most of my Vision life but have gone back to a semi-blend. The last full-syn oil I had in the bike was the Rotella T6 5w40. It seem to work very well up until around the 90,000 something mile mark and then I felt a faint clutch slippage. There may have been other mitigating circumstances, but I'm not wanting to put in a new clutch now. I decided to try a semi-blend 10w40 again and it seems to tighten things up and have changed it already once since using it. I'll use a semi-blend as recommended by Victory from here on out whether full synthetic is okay or not, but that is my preference. |
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Cruiser
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Cabot Arkansas | I used the Amsoil 10w40 motorcycle oil one time before going on a 3500 mile trip because I didn't want to have do an oil change on the trip,by the end of the 2nd day around 1K miles I was beginning to get a small amount of slippage around 4500+ rpm under heavy throttle,I couldn't get any vic oil close by so I used Rotella T 15w40 within about 150 miles the clutch slippage was gone.I always use the Vic oil now.No more synthetic oil for me. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | The mystery continues. To date, the poll shows 74% have no issues and 26% do. 1 report of an issue with the 10W-40 out of 31 responses.
I just ordered myself 3 more cases of Amsoil 10W-40. Works for me in six bikes. Two Victorys, a Kawasaki, two Hondas, and a Husqvarna.
Ronnie |
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Clutch slippage related to oil brand usage