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Tourer
Posts: 324
New Orleans, La, | Harley has a new engine family line with priority oiling, liquid cooled heads, 8 valves per cylinder heads, and comes in 107 oil/air, 107 liquid cooled, and 114 liquid cooled. Harley is fighting to get back the market share they have been loosing over the past few years in a big way. The new engines also have a single cam, no valve adjustment intervals, 10%more power and 7% more torque, thinner glitter primary, and cooler by relocating the cats away from the riders. The new motors will go in all big twin models except the dyna glides. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 10
| " thinner glitter primary, "? At first I thought this was a typo, but you know... it may be an better avenue for Harley to find new market share.
INTRODUCING: The New Poly Pocket Ultra Low...
Or perhaps...
... The My Little Pony Road Glide :D |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | They claim every part in this 107 is brand new, nothing used from previous motors... no push rods, etc |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| take your pick 107 or 114
http://cyrilhuzeblog.com/2016/08/24/harley-davidson-2017-touring-mo...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDFnA-Zc_qM
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| you better go back to reading about the new motor V92SC
I see they did away with the air shocks and went back to cartridge forks. All so 2 spark plugs per head.
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Visionary
Posts: 1308
Sand Rock, AL United States | all new engine and only 10% increase? |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | jimtom - 2016-08-25 6:04 AM
all new engine and only 10% increase?
They saved the 24% increase for the Screaming Eagle kits. Smart marketing. Make the consumer pay extra to get it all.
Ronnie |
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Visionary
Posts: 1308
Sand Rock, AL United States | Not this consumer.
Edited by jimtom 2016-08-25 9:48 AM
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Tourer
Posts: 416
Prairie City, IA United States | jimtom - 2016-08-25 6:04 AM
all new engine and only 10% increase?
It is about the Cubic inches not the power increase. You know, my dog is bigger than your dog.  |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| Harley is smarter then you give them credit for. Yes its only 10% increase and that fine for the normal rider. BUT
Now the dealer can offer bigger cam bigger heads and pistons. Not every one wants big power
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Visionary
Posts: 1308
Sand Rock, AL United States | Still underwhelming to me. But hey, at least they offered something new. |
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Tourer
Posts: 324
New Orleans, La, | The point I was trying to make hear is that H D is bringing their pushrod big twin into the 21st century and meeting the pollution standards of Europe and CARB through modern engineering. They have made their big twins breath 50% better, increased amp output at idle, cooler running , higher torque starter, higher compression , dual knock sensors for more accurate timing and prevention of knock allowing for leaner more precise fuel metering, dual spark plug heads, reconfigured exhaust port. They essentially looked at what worked with all of the other makes and adapted it to their engines. They now have the basis of an engine that can potentially make reliable big power and torque with efficiency across the board. With all of the improvements the H D big twins now have the performance stock to stay with the Victories, Hondas, and other makes without having to add cams, tuner, and exhaust before they take them out the door. All of this along with improve suspension, thinner slipper assist clutch, and improved foot placement at a stop for inseam challenged riders. Hopefully this will prompt Polaris to up the game of Victory to address some of the few flaws of the Vision. I'm hopeful for some much needed evolutionary changes/improvements to our beloved Vision so that we might be as excited over our choice as I am about the potential of the Vision. IJS. |
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Visionary
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Sand Rock, AL United States | well, when you put it that way...I appreciate your commentary. |
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Tourer
Posts: 319
| I Wouldn't buy an HD with that engine for 5 or more years untill most of the major bugs are worked out. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | Banjo - 2016-08-26 10:57 AM
I Wouldn't buy an HD with that engine for 5 or more years untill most of the major bugs are worked out.
Lol! I understand, but I can't help but remember how many people were saying the same thing about Victory 16 - 17 years ago.
You wouldn't believe all the crap that both my Harley riding buddies, and my Honda riding buddies gave me when I bought a Victory.
By the way, I still have it.
Ronnie |
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Tourer
Posts: 411
Dallas, Texas | These seem great, but the REAL question...what do they SOUND like? potato, potato, potato? |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | My understand these new engine Are NOT push rods motors.. this will be a game changer for HD . I know a guy that works for a very big Harley dealership he actually got to test ride the 107 he said it was extremely quiet compared to their other engines as far as engine noise and the performance was very Snappy and quick.. Frost this might not be a big deal but for them going from the tube out to a 4-valve going from pushrods to a cam chain this is a big deal welcome to the 21st Century Harley Davidson |
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Tourer
Posts: 324
New Orleans, La, | The new engines are still using push rods to actuate the valves using a rocker arm similar to the one in the Freedom engine. The cam remains in the valley but uses a silent chain drive reducing the number of parts and the complexity of their previous drive set UPS. H D went to great lengths to insure the engine retained the iconic look and exhaust note that made them the most recognized American motorcycle world wide and those two aspects have not changed. Fact is with the huge reduction in NVV they were able to give customers more of that distinctive exhaust note and stay in compliance with noise restrictions world wide. The engineers at H D have been extra busy the same of which I cannot report from Victory at this time. The way Victory is trying to mimic HD I guess significant up date won't occur until 2023 cause that will be the15th birthday of the 106. Snh. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | https://youtu.be/knKBF9OfXJY |
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Visionary
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Sand Rock, AL United States | good video. |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| the 107 has the same horsepower as the Vic |
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | WHO GIVES A SHIT ??? They still look like CRAP from the 40's ..... LOVE my 60'ish SPACESHIP !!!!
(Spcshp on the Moon.jpg)
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Cruiser
Posts: 170
Barrington, NH | johnnyvision - 2016-09-01 7:16 PM
the 107 has the same horsepower as the Vic
Slightly less, but pretty close... 106 victory is rated at 97hp and the new 107 is rated at 92.5hp according the EPA certifications... |
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Cruiser
Posts: 170
Barrington, NH | Arkainzeye - 2016-08-30 8:19 AM
My understand these new engine Are NOT push rods motors.. this will be a game changer for HD . I know a guy that works for a very big Harley dealership he actually got to test ride the 107 he said it was extremely quiet compared to their other engines as far as engine noise and the performance was very Snappy and quick.. Frost this might not be a big deal but for them going from the tube out to a 4-valve going from pushrods to a cam chain this is a big deal welcome to the 21st Century Harley Davidson
Still uses pushrods, very similar set up to a Yamaha Star motorcycle! |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 15
| New engine!! What about the rest of the bike?? |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| Victory 106 is not rated that high. It has 83 horse to the rear wheel |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | johnnyvision - 2016-09-02 6:24 PM
Victory 106 is not rated that high. It has 83 horse to the rear wheel?
Technically, you are correct, but the numbers are still about even. Both factories report crankshaft horsepower. Both will produce about the same at the rear wheel. These new Harley engines may give Victory a little competition. That's good. Victory may up their game again.
BTW, while mine did produce about 83 at the rear wheel, it now is in the 110 range with just $1290.78 spent to get there, including a professional tune.
Try that with a Harley.
Ronnie
Edited by rdbudd 2016-09-04 10:21 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | I like that Harley is pushing their envelope. Is it still a push rod engine ?? Yes, but it really doesn't matter in the rpm range these engines operate in. One bad thing is it's still a three piece crank, there can be longevity issues there. The 4 valve heads are a great improvement. One area they made sure of is the new engine is Euro 4 compliant And Victory's touring bikes ARE NOT for 2017. That will require a change or band aid of some type by Polaris. Hey maybe we'll get a new engine....
Edited by XRsteve 2016-09-04 12:59 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 324
New Orleans, La, | XRSteve, it is my greatest wish that Victory would up their game and solve the Euro problem and give their customers and the market at large. My hope would be to take the existing Octane/Scout engine blueprint and enlarge it to 106 cu.in. saving on R&D and time to get a proven design to market. I think that would be the most economic way to go. Imagine a 106 version of the existing liquid cooled engine replacing the air/oil cooled engine currently available. |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| stock 107 HD
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | That's actually pretty good for right out of the box.
This is what a 100% stock Victory 106 did back in 2008.
Ronnie
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 11
Eldersburg, MD United States | I wonder if the pushrods have a big effect on the sound, because my Yamaha Roadstar sounded a LOT like a harley, and it is about the only Foreign bike that has them, AND the Indian 111 is a pushrod bike also.
Harley sound is distinctive, so I think they will be hard pressed to move away from pushrods if they feel it will hurt the sound.
Let face it, until Harley makes a substantially more powerful engine than the 106, we might just be out of luck for a new engine 
I guess Victory simply did too good of a job engineering the 106. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | your yamaha probably had a single pin crankshaft as well.. just wondering... how OLD is the Freedom 106 now? |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | Arkainzeye - 2016-09-06 7:36 AM
your yamaha probably had a single pin crankshaft as well.. just wondering... how OLD is the Freedom 106 now?
The Yamaha is a single crankpin, which is why it "sounds like a Harley". I believe the Freedom 106 was introduced with the new Vision in 2007, as a 2008 model. It was being talked about in 2006--2007.
My Vision was built on 11-20-2007, and there were Visions on the street before that. I looked at some non-running prototypes that were making the dealer circuit a year earlier.
Harley engineers apparently have been looking intensely at the Victory engine for design ideas................
Ronnie |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | The Harley engine is nothing like the victory engine.. unless you call a 4 valve per head design Victorys idea ??
http://ridermagazine.com/2016/09/08/2017-harley-davidson-milwaukee-... |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | https://youtu.be/7DqCYcOVrPE |
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Visionary
Posts: 1308
Sand Rock, AL United States | It does look like a home run for the Moco. The first HD I would consider? Maybe but I doubt it. I still hate to have something that looks like everyone else's and every other HD ever made. But, that's just my personal thing. I like to be different from 100 ft away not just discernible from 10 feet away by only the HD educated about the engine lineage.
The journalist ripped this one line off of Indian. It was one of there campaign lines almost word for word " one that honors the past, embraces the future" |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | Arkainzeye - 2016-09-09 7:00 PM
The Harley engine is nothing like the victory engine.. unless you call a 4 valve per head design Victorys idea ??
http://ridermagazine.com/2016/09/08/2017-harley-davidson-milwaukee-...
I never said that the new Harley engine was "like the Victory engine". You said that--not me. . I said they looked at the Victory engine for design ideas, which they did.
Of course, Victory, and many other manufacturers, have looked at previous design ideas all along. Things like the 1918 Twin City 12-20 farm tractor, for example, which featured twin cams and four valves per cylinder http://twincitytractors.tripod.com/1220.htm
Ronnie
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Tourer
Posts: 324
New Orleans, La, | I recently talked with a die in the wool HD guy that recently test rode the new Milwaukee 8. He complained, as many other core big twin owners, that the new engine is "too smooth". One of the main engineering targets for HD was to reduce NVH and they hit the target bulls eye. In fact they did what Victory had to do with the first V92 engine and that was to add some vibration because they bot engineered all of the primary vibration characteristic to a large bore twin clean right out of the engine. HD did it to not alienate it's core group but at the same time appease the new potential customers that possibly never rode a big twin before and looking for a more refined and less fatiguing riding experience. Victory's reason was that the target market wanting something that mimicked the big twin experience since they were getting feed back from current or ex HD riders when fine tuning the V92 and subsequent engines. I for one would have wished Victory would have gone with electric motor smooth high torque V twin. Not that my Vision isn't smooth quiet the contrary. My Vision is as smooth at highway rpm as my transverse mounted inline 4 Suzuki G1000G. I agree with a previous post that the new HD engine is a quantum leap for them in all aspects but compared to the 106 Freedom it's at best pulled even with it. Reliability and longevity TBD. Lastly I would like to see an American transmission that engaged with out a clunk but more a snicker. I realize that many Victory owners find the clunk reassuring that the bike has engage the gear selected but for me I prefer the snicker of the BMW/GW trans gear changer. All in all I wish Victory would make as large a quantum leap in NVH with the Freedom engine and transmission as HD did with their new engine. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | I have friends in the past would never consider Harley-Davidson as an option but now consider them something to look at. Some of the comments on her it was if they build a power plant like this, with performance #'s "close to" victory, BUT have the amazing an outstanding dealer Network with accessories and options that surpass any other manufacturer on the planet why not consider them now as a contender ? Even aftermarket companies like Power Commander, they make a lot more Superior Products for HD but for nobody else. |
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