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Tourer
Posts: 401
| Let’s cut though the BS opinions and talk about an honest assessment. So if you are going to comment then comment on what is a factual review, not what you think or feel, or heard. I’m sick of hearing about “experienced” riders who pontificate about the dangers, instability, and risks there are in using a car tire when they have never ridden on one. IMHO they are full of crap. Also, screw the reasons why I would want a car tire, because it really is none of your damn business.
I reached a point here of the meaningless banter that I finally just got POed enough to go and mount a car tire, and give it a try. I have been riding for 35+ years now, and that alone should give me a little credibility. I have also owned and ridden many different types of bikes, so I have a good understanding of what different bikes do.
Here is my initial review (400mi):
2008 Vision setup - 36psi in the tire, 30 psi in the shock riding 1 up, and 40 psi in the shock riding 2 up. 1 up load is about 220#. 2 up touring is about 460#. All comments will be compared to the old Dunlop that came with the Vision.
1 up riding is where I see the biggest difference.
Riding straight the road surface is much more noticeable. Road camber pushes the bike to one side or the other, and you need to compensate for it. Road grooves, cuts, expansion joints become those slots that your little slot cars needed to stay on the track, and again you need to compensate. Steel bridges also like to pull the rear tire long their grating. Gravel and sand are a different story. Instead of the tire plowing into the gravel or sand it rides up on top of it and feels amazingly controlled. Pulling my bike in and out of my garage onto the gravel driveway has gotten much easier.
To sum up straight line riding – if you have a nice smooth road you have to adjust a little more for road camber. If you have the crap roads like many of us do then the bike will have a mushy wobble or osculation, and you will likely get used to it (I am).
Now for the turns… This is where I was completely floored (or floor boarded). Bit by bit I got used to how to put the bike into a turn, because the linear consistency of force wasn’t there. Instead the force was more exponential with more force being required to initialize the turn with a gradual reduction as you pushed over, but returning the bike upright required very little effort as you exit the turn. What amazes me the most is the traction, I haven’t been able to break it yet, and I fear that when I do I will have reached both mine and the bikes limits. With my old MT I would get more drift in the same turns and speeds. Go figure.
Parking lot maneuvering (walking) is the same, but slow speed maneuvering needs a little more input to get the bike to turn. No the bike will not stay upright on the flat of the tire, so I don’t recommend you try it.
Braking feels a little better (or is it), and I find that I’m using more rear brake than I did in the past. Since the front and rear are tied together I found that when I clamp on the rear brakes the whole bike will pull down and the front will begin to dive. I couldn’t get the bike to do this with the old tire, because it would break traction before the front would start to dive. I find this a little unsettling when I break in a turn, because I can’t get that little bit of drift to bleed off speed before bringing the bike into a straight line stop.
The ride seems to be smoother, but much less crisp than before. The best analogy I can use is that it is like an old school Cadillac that has that mushy meandering ride.
2 up riding is very much like 1 up, but straight line riding is very different.
Instead of following every crack or deformation the ride is more settled with a light osculation, but steel grates react the same. Vertical stability is increased and it tends to handle the higher center of gravity you have with a passenger and a full trunk with less snap.
My next step is to drop the air in the tire down to 32psi to see if I can get the ride I get with 2 up riding.
In my view “my” verdict is still out, but I was NOT expecting the tire to perform the way it has so far.
I will be back and add comments when I drop the air pressure.
Edited by sgiacci 2011-04-19 11:36 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | Thanks for the review. I am riding E3's now but I have always kept an open mind about the possibilities of riding on the dark side.
Ride Safe! |
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Cruiser
Posts: 185
Rhode Island | I think many of us would like a longer wearing tire with a tread pattern that handled wet roads better, the problem has always been the concern of loosing performance and handling. Looking forward to your comments after you dial in the air pressure settings and get a few thousand miles on it.
Thanks for the info.
Jim |
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Cruiser
Posts: 156
Bluff Park, Alabama - God's Country! 2011 PW VV | Which tire are you reviewing? And Size please sir. |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| Most dark siders are running a Bridgestone Potenza G019 with 195/55-16 thats the same as you elite 3's if your running a trailer hitch its a 185/55-16
I have been doing my research for the last 5 months and can not find any thing bad about the car tire. Yes there are few that say this and that not what they would like but not one has taken the car tire off. If you go to a goldwing site watch out cause there so many running car tires you would think there a car.
I have looked and one car tire is $115 bucks where the elite 3 is $ 275 ruffly. So motorcycle tire get 15 thousand mile and the guys say the car tire on a bike is about 25 thousand miles.
As soon as the elite 3 is done for I'm going to the darkside. I'm thinking I will be learning how to ride again but then I have all summer to learn.
Darsiders say "Once you go dark you will not go back" 
Edited by john frey 2011-04-21 1:01 PM
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 28
| Your review is a lot like many others I hve seen with the key phrase being something to the effect of "it's something to get used to". That phrase sums it all up for me...and that is darkside is not something that's for me. The funny thing is one can "get used to" to almost anything. This includes things like being in prison, living on the streets, being a prisoner of war, not showering for weeks or months, etc.
I do appreciate your factual assessment of your experience. Lots of people are fine with getting "used to" riding the dark side and if that floats your boat, more power to you. For me, I'll stick with the tried and true and very well proven motorcycle tire. |
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Cruiser
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orrick, mo | I've ridden myVV about 24000 miles on a ct and have no plans to change. I will admit that the ct does take some getting used to but like anything new it always does. even when I but a new mt on the bike takes some getting used to again and breaking in. Its probley because I get every mile I can out of a tire safely before i change it. IMHO with the ct once you find a good psi to your liking you won't really want vary much. too much air and the bike feels tippy and not enough kinda mushy. 36psi works for me
The debate on ct or mt is like the debate Victory or Harley not matter what side your on some people will
never even concede a single virtue to the other. You just can't change a closed mind.
Ride safe all. |
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Tourer
Posts: 432
Gettysburg, 2008 Tour Premium | After spending some time reading the post's on the Goldwing Darkside forum I ordered a Falken on the observation of a GL1800 rider that it handles closest to a M/C tire and his riding some of my states more demanding roads. Looking forward getting the tire on next week.
The falken reported to be very sticky, V rated (148 MPH) and with a little stiffer sidewalls.
Thanks for your report. |
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Cruiser
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Rhode Island | I have never run a ct on any bike but I have taken a short ride on a friends bike a wider rear tire (Yamaha Raider) and initiating a turn was much different than anything I was used to. So the question I have is would there be any cornering/handling difference between the 185/55-16 and the 195/55-16; I realize it is a small size difference but if 2lbs of air makes a difference it made me wonder if this would also.
Thanks,
Jim |
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Tourer
Posts: 401
| ghostssx - 2011-04-20 10:05 PM
Which tire are you reviewing? And Size please sir.
Bridgestone Potenza G019 with 195/55-16 |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 29
| hammo - 2011-04-21 8:23 PM
Your review is a lot like many others I hve seen with the key phrase being something to the effect of "it's something to get used to". That phrase sums it all up for me...and that is darkside is not something that's for me. The funny thing is one can "get used to" to almost anything. This includes things like being in prison, living on the streets, being a prisoner of war, not showering for weeks or months, etc.
I do appreciate your factual assessment of your experience. Lots of people are fine with getting "used to" riding the dark side and if that floats your boat, more power to you. For me, I'll stick with the tried and true and very well proven motorcycle tire.
Having to 'get used to something' isn't necessarily a bad thing. When I first test rode my XC I had never ridden a fairing bike before and not being able to see the road right down in front of me was a little dis-orienting at first however the rest of the test ride was awsome. Having to never 'get used to something new' is only for those that never want change in anything. I'm seriously considering going DS when my rear wears out. If I don't like it I'll just switch back and the world won't be turned up-side down because I tried it.
Edited by 40vegas 2011-04-22 5:38 PM
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Puddle Jumper
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Hanover, Md | I have had a DS tire on my Vision for about 5,000 miles now, and I love the ride. I knew when I bought the Vision that I would put a car tire on it with the first tire change, because I had had one on my Kawi Vulcan for 15,000 miles. I pretty much knew what to expect. What I have found is that all tires have limitations and areas where they excel. For me, the positives far outweigh the negatives. The heels of my boots can attest to my lean angle with this tire. I consistently drag them from up on my pegs. Good luck to you. |
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Tourer
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| hammo - 2011-04-21 8:23 PM
Your review is a lot like many others I hve seen with the key phrase being something to the effect of "it's something to get used to". That phrase sums it all up for me...and that is darkside is not something that's for me. The funny thing is one can "get used to" to almost anything. This includes things like being in prison, living on the streets, being a prisoner of war, not showering for weeks or months, etc.
I do appreciate your factual assessment of your experience. Lots of people are fine with getting "used to" riding the dark side and if that floats your boat, more power to you. For me, I'll stick with the tried and true and very well proven motorcycle tire.
"Getting used to", is a true statement, but it isn't as bad as it sounds, since the changes are minor. It will change how a Vision handles, and one of the big selling points of the Vision is the handling. Not wanting to change that is something I can respect.
Edited by sgiacci 2011-04-23 6:31 PM
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Tourer
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New Mexico | sgiacci - 2011-04-19 10:34 PM
I will be back and add comments when I drop the air pressure.
Getting ready to buy my first set of tires for the Vision. Going to stick with Elite 3 on front, but maybe darkside on rear.
Still happy with your decision?
Edited by Boots 2011-05-02 9:46 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 1228
Rancho Cucamonga, CA | Has anyone tried a 175/60-16? It would seem that being narrower, it would fit better for those with a hitch. Less chance of hydroplanning. More sidewall to allow for flex and still have a wider contact patch than the MT. It is also designed for 5" rims and has a closer diameter to stock. |
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Central Wisconsin | Nozzledog - 2011-05-02 12:03 PM Has anyone tried a 175/60-16? It would seem that being narrower, it would fit better for those with a hitch. Less chance of hydroplanning. More sidewall to allow for flex and still have a wider contact patch than the MT. It is also designed for 5" rims and has a closer diameter to stock. Yes...Just installed a Dunlop SP Winter Sport 175/60r/16.
Seems to handle VERY well. I'm running 36lbs. It probably will wear a little faster then the other CT's account of being a winter tire.
My bike odometer is right on with the GPS odometer now.
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Visionary
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Rancho Cucamonga, CA | keep me posted, that is the tire I want. only 3-4k left on my E3. |
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Tourer
Posts: 366
Albuquerque, NM | Anyone running dynabeads in a CT? If so, how many oz. are required for the above combo? thanks...
Edited by nailer 2011-05-03 7:47 AM
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Tourer
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| nailer - 2011-05-03 7:41 AM
Anyone running dynabeads in a CT? If so, how many oz. are required for the above combo? thanks...
I was about to run them, but counldn't justify the effort. You can't see the rear wheel, and I don't run the bike on really bad roads. I almost never throw weights, so I didn't do it. |
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Tourer
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| Instead of dropping the air pressure, I bumped it up to 38# (from 36#). I’m amazed at how much just a minor change in pressure effects how the bike rides with the car tire. With a motorcycle tire I never really noticed a change in performance until there was a difference of 5-10#.
So I will cover only what has changed?
Running straight is better, and the road camber issue is almost gone. Grooves and joints have less of an affect as well. The mush is tighter, and the oscillation is gone.
The turns seem snappier and the force is less exponential, but it still doesn’t have the consistency an MT has. Traction is still amazing, but there is a little more bounce in hard turns. This makes sense since the higher pressure is translating the bumps into the shock versus absorbing them.
In general, the ride has improved, but I have only run it 1up. So I will be back when I do some loaded 2up riding.
The most important observation I have is that minor tire pressure changes yield big results, and I don’t think a one pressure will fit all riders like a MT can come close to doing. You will need to tune the tire pressure (up or down) to get ride characteristics that are to your liking.
Edited by sgiacci 2011-05-03 9:29 PM
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Central Wisconsin | nailer - 2011-05-03 7:41 AM Anyone running dynabeads in a CT? If so, how many oz. are required for the above combo? thanks... Yes...I'm using 3oz's in the rear CT and 2oz's in the front .
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Chesterfield, VA | Steven, that is exactly the same conclusion I came to with the Potenza. I started off at 32 PSI , which was the pressure that most seem to recommend, but found it to be mushy and somewhat loose feeling. I ended up running the CT between 38-40 PSI and found the ride to be much better (comparable to a MT). After switching back to the E3 ( because I installed a hitch) the major difference I find is that it takes less pressure to initiate a response...almost as if you only have to think of the input and the bike responds (I know this doesn't make much sense).
I intend to go back to a CT that will work with the hitch at my next tire change. |
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Tourer
Posts: 401
| sarvbill - 2011-05-04 7:09 AM
Steven, that is exactly the same conclusion I came to with the Potenza. I started off at 32 PSI , which was the pressure that most seem to recommend, but found it to be mushy and somewhat loose feeling. I ended up running the CT between 38-40 PSI and found the ride to be much better (comparable to a MT). After switching back to the E3 ( because I installed a hitch) the major difference I find is that it takes less pressure to initiate a response...almost as if you only have to think of the input and the bike responds (I know this doesn't make much sense).
I intend to go back to a CT that will work with the hitch at my next tire change.
Until some one runs on a CT it wouldn't make sense, but I understand now. Now matter what all the CT guys say a MT is much more reponsive, but that really dosen't matter to me. The bike still responds extremely well for how I intend to ride it.
BTW - Thank you for the tire, it was a pleasure meeting you.
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Tourer
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Moravia, IA | nailer - 2011-05-03 7:41 AM
Anyone running dynabeads in a CT? If so, how many oz. are required for the above combo? thanks...
Im running 3oz in the car tire and 2oz in the front....but since your already breaking the bead might I suggest a cheaper alternative to Dynabeads.
Airsoft pellets.....$10 buys you a HUGE tub.....enough to do over 50 tires. The downside is that they will NOT fit thru the valve stem.....so you must break the bead to get them in there. No problem if your changing tires, your in there anyways.
......Ive taken them out of tires after 20K miles and they still look fine - they work just the same as Dynabeads. |
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Tourer
Posts: 412
Fargo, ND |
Aaron,
Please help me understand what exactly the 'airsoft pellets' are, where you get them and how much of them to use.
Thanks! |
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Tourer
Posts: 395
Moravia, IA | Flatsix - 2011-05-08 8:03 PM
Aaron,
Please help me understand what exactly the 'airsoft pellets' are, where you get them and how much of them to use.
Thanks!
Airsoft pellets.....the little plastic BBs you shoot in the "toy" guns.
They come in everything from small packets....to large plastic tubs. 
You can get the almost anywhere - I bought mine at WalMart. I huge plastic tub like pictured above cost me $9. My quick calculation showed I could do over 100 tires with that $9 tub. They come in different weights, indicated in grams. Indicated on the bag or tub, somewhere, it will show the weight. 
For our application I picked the heaviest ones I could get at WalMart.....figuring that if they were heavier, I would need less BBs per tire. I just used a simple food scale......and weighed out the exact same weigh per tire that was recommended on the Dynabeads website. Same theory, same principal....so there numbers outta work the same. ......and they did.
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Tourer
Posts: 394
Tucson, AZ | Ordered my new Goodrich Potenza G019 195/55/16 yesterday. Can't wait! |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 23
WI | Went darkside last weekend. Only have 150 miles on. so far all is good. Went with the popular 195/55-16 Bridgestone potenza running 38psi |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 623
| anyone try a Hankook Ventus. read many good things about it on the GL1800 site. all numbers and rating are on par with the potenza, but it is v rated for speed and has a max pressure of 51 psi compaired to 44 for the potenza. Also has a bead lock |
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elgin mn | I ordered 1 Three weeks out. Hankook Ventus That is.... |
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Tourer
Posts: 599
New Mexico | Got my Potenza today. It looks HUGE!
Getting installed Thurs.
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Moravia, IA | Boots - 2011-05-10 9:39 PM
Got my Potenza today. It looks HUGE!
Getting installed Thurs.
Crazy isn't it, you would never think that tire would ever fit under there....but it will. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 623
| I am going with the ventus v4 as well. Looks like a better tire
Than the other non run flats that are avail for the vision. Will review
When I ride with it next week |
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Tourer
Posts: 599
New Mexico | I was concerned about run flat tires for a few reasons.
The stiffer sidewalls made me think maybe it would hold it's square, flat bottom profile. Would not allow them to contour with speed, and give that flat bottom-to-sidewall fallover feeling.
They are usually heavier.
And lastly with the added material I thought the winter performance might be impacted as it would take longer for the tire to get to a good operating temperature.
These are just OOA (Out Of Ass) comments. Nothing based on facts; just my thoughts on it.
Edited by Boots 2011-05-11 10:40 AM
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Central Wisconsin | I was concerned about run flat tires for a few reasons.
The stiffer sidewalls made me think maybe it would hold it's square, flat bottom profile. Would not allow them to contour with speed, and give that flat bottom-to-sidewall fallover feeling.
They are usually heavier.
And lastly with the added material I thought the winter performance might be impacted as it would take longer for the tire to get to a good operating temperature.
These are just OOA (Out Of Ass) comments. Nothing based on facts; just my thoughts on it. So far I can honestly say that I've not had any of those issues with the 175/60/16 Dunlop. In fact I like it better then the 195/50/16 non run flat Falken CT I had before. 
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Iron Butt
Posts: 623
| In general your concerns of the run flats have been confirmed by the darkside
Forums. Of course some guys prefer them and have success with them. The run flats
Are more sluggish to turn and stand up on exit campaired to non run flats. I am
Going with the vents for the next 15 to 17k miles but will then
Go with the kuhmo run flat for my ride to Alaska(no twisties). I look forward
To having a camparision of the 2, but am confident my riding style will require
A non run flat. |
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Central Wisconsin | jeffmack - 2011-05-12 11:27 PM In general your concerns of the run flats have been confirmed by the darkside Forums. Of course some guys prefer them and have success with them. The run flats Are more sluggish to turn and stand up on exit campaired to non run flats. I am Going with the vents for the next 15 to 17k miles but will then Go with the kuhmo run flat for my ride to Alaska(no twisties). I look forward To having a camparision of the 2, but am confident my riding style will require A non run flat. Could you send me a link on which Darkside forum confirmed the concerns on run flats. A poll was taken on Darksiders of the GL1800 Riders and the Dunlop SP Winter Sport run flats out numbered the other CT tires.
Edited by Thomas 2011-05-13 11:59 AM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 623
| i will get that for you. no doubt many, even the majority go with run flats. But even the run flat riders agree that they non run flats are better/more responsive in the turns. If you enjoy the security of the run flat over what a NRF offers then thats your tire. Since non of my bike tires are run flats and am confident i can deal with a side road issue I am not looking for a run flat, but prefer the manueverability. I will get the thread where this was widely talked about and widely agreed. |
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Puddle Jumper
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Minerva, Ohio | I just put on a Bridgestone Potenza G019 with 195/55-16. As in, I just got home from the tire guy. He charged $35.00 for mount & electronic balance. I gave him a hand and it took a couple hours all together. If you haven't had the tire off yet, leave the rt pipe alone and just remove the two shock bolts to lower the swing arm enough to get the axle out. This guy has a super nice tire machine and it wouldn't work with the pulley on so go ahead and remove the pulley before you try to take the old tire off. The only tire he couldn't do with the machine (before today) was a custom 24" front chopper tire. We mounted the CT by hand because the sidewall was so stiff that we couldn't push it down for the machine to catch. What a stretch!!! It took about 120lbs to set the bead and then the reassembly was a snap. I'm starting out with 35lbs and I'll tweak accordingly. BTW I got lucky with the pulley alignment and the was no chirp at least on the way home. I cut my 1st ride short because it was raining and big black clouds were heading my way :-) |
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Central Wisconsin | Orbit It took about 120lbs to set the bead and then the reassembly was a snap. I'm starting out with 35lbs and I'll tweak accordingly. BTW I got lucky with the pulley alignment and the was no chirp at least on the way home. I cut my 1st ride short because it was raining and big black clouds were heading my way :-) Man oh man that's a lot of risky pressure to make the bead seat. I ride 2up and ran 38lbs in my first CT, the center was wearing more then the sides. Everybody has their own sweet spot. Currently running 36lbs. |
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Visionary
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Rancho Cucamonga, CA | Does it concern anyone that the 195 tires are designed for 6" rims, not 5"? (thus the difficulty putting them on the rim) |
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Tourer
Posts: 401
| Nozzledog - 2011-05-13 9:03 PM
Does it concern anyone that the 195 tires are designed for 6" rims, not 5"? (thus the difficulty putting them on the rim)
That is why it is a better choice - the tire rounds a bit. |
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Tourer
Posts: 401
| UPDATE: After 4k-5k on a car tire I found out why the bike was following the grooves, and it wasn’t the rear tire like I thought. It turned out to be the front tire. When I replaced the rear tire the front tire was showing wear, but I didn’t have the money to get a new one. Also there was some tread left above the wear bars. I have a Dunlop E3 on the front, and replaced it with another one (13.5k mi.). I did this out of need, and not want (personal reasons made me go out of town unexpectantly). The bike now tracks great, osculation is gone, and it doesn’t get drawn into the grooves like it did before. The E3’s have a heavy wear band that is about a 1” wide band in the center of the tread, and it makes the tire wear funny. The sides wore out faster leaving that 1” band as a ridge that reduced my contact patch, hence it started to act like a narrow tire (very narrow). That explains many of the issues I had, but why didn’t I notice them before I put on the CT. Honestly I don’t know why, but I will say that the performance continued to decline. I was getting to a point that I was going to change out both tires, and get rid of the CT. But circumstance and money stopped that – luckily. The mushy ride is somewhat reduced, and turns can be initiated a bit faster. When the tires heat up (100+ mi.), the mush comes back. I haven’t checked the tire and shock pressures in a while, and I will need to see if that can be dialed out. When shopping for a new front tire I will look for a front tire that doesn’t have that wear band on it. After changing the front tire I feel much better on the CT, and find myself pushing the bike harder. I also feel much better about my decision. |
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Fort Walton Beach, FL | This entire post is heresy... may the gods of motorcycle riding forgive you! Read all about it at http://www.thevog.net/forum/victory-vision-35/car-tire-on-a-vision/ LOL! Where are all the naysayers... the "experts" who demand scientific proof that we actually landed on the moon, that there was only one shooter in Dallas, and that BO has given us hope? Car tires are for cars... motorcycle tires are for motorcycles... and the world is flat! |
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Visionary
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New Bohemia, Va | Handyhoward - 2011-09-07 8:46 AM
This entire post is heresy... may the gods of motorcycle riding forgive you! Read all about it at http://www.thevog.net/forum/victory-vision-35/car-tire-on-a-vision/ LOL! Where are all the naysayers... the "experts" who demand scientific proof that we actually landed on the moon, that there was only one shooter in Dallas, and that BO has given us hope? Car tires are for cars... motorcycle tires are for motorcycles... and the world is flat!
are you trying to stir up the few people who don't agree with a C/T on a motorcycle. Your post is absolutely worthless as this thread was on the positive side of a CT, so what is your rant about? Quote the negative comments so your post makes sense.
I do not run a car tire, never will run a car tire on my Vision, but I'm not against anyone that does. Do you have a silly comment to make about that?
Edited by Cap'n Nemo 2011-09-07 8:59 AM
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Fort Walton Beach, FL | Cap'n Nemo - 2011-09-07 8:58 AM
are you trying to stir up the few people who don't agree with a C/T on a motorcycle. Your post is absolutely worthless as this thread was on the positive side of a CT, so what is your rant about? Quote the negative comments so your post makes sense.
I do not run a car tire, never will run a car tire on my Vision, but I'm not against anyone that does. Do you have a silly comment to make about that?
Actually you promised that you were going to your control panel and block my posts from appearing on your screen...LMAO
If you had taken the time to read the post for what it was instead of with your biased view point, you may have recognized irony at it's finest. BUT since you have allowed your prejudices to override your sense of comprehension you missed the point entirely.
Verbal and situational irony are often used for emphasis in the assertion of a truth. The ironic form of simile, used in sarcasm, and some forms of litotes emphasize one's meaning by the deliberate use of language which states the opposite of the truth ? or drastically and obviously understates a factual connection.
I thought that everything included in this thread was well written by individuals willing to step out of the box and/or allow others to step out of the box without belittling them, as you and your ilk on this forum are want to do.
I referred those who wish to see the "heretical" response to the same subject but on a different site... If they wish.
I have run darkside for 48 years, and have fought the persecution from the righteous... just thought I would share another witch hunt. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | never said I woukd ignore you or anyone. To be at least 48 years old, most likely 60, you are very childish. That is the only irony. |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| I like my car tire. I corner like I did before and scrap the floor boards just fine. I have noticed that its the front tire that steers me into the ruts more then the rear. My mechanic had to watch the rear pulley when in the tire machine cause its bigger then all others.
If you look close at the tire you can see that I haven't even been close to leaning to far.
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Tourer
Posts: 401
| Cap'n Nemo - 2011-09-07 9:42 AM
never said I woukd ignore you or anyone. To be at least 48 years old, most likely 60, you are very childish. That is the only irony.
I thought his dry wit was well placed and refreshingly funny, plus his grammar was impeckable. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1228
Rancho Cucamonga, CA | Ok, my Dunlop winter RF 175/60-16 just showed up on my doorstep. I'll let you know how it does on my 'B2B in 24hrs' run later this month. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 154
Cabot Arkansas | I have been running the Bridgestone Potenza G019 with 195/55-16 for a little over 14000 miles now, still looks and rides like new.IMHO it takes alittle more effort to drive than the E3 dunlop but not nearly as much as the 240 on my Jackpot did.All in all I am pretty happy with it and plan on another one when the time comes.One downside is when kevinx dyno tuned my vision he said the car tire cost me around 5 hp on the dyno . |
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | I take it that the 5hp is from the contact patch, or the softness of tread, or both? I wonder if anyone feels this hp drop in the seat of their pants after going DS? Anybody care to comment? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 262
Flowery Branch Ga | I, too, have gone to using a car tire. I chose to use the Bridgestone Potenza Grid 109 in 185-55-16 so I could add a hitch in the future. I only have about 160 miles so far. The turn in is similar to the Hammer S that I tesy rode last year. The "getting used to" is no worse than going from a Sportster to the Vision, IMHO. The best part for me is the added slow speed and stopped stability as I have a lingering injury to my right ankle (thank you for the tip over protectors!). |
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Tourer
Posts: 394
Tucson, AZ | I too have the Potenza and I cannot detect any loss of hp. My riding buddy on his Harley gets just as small in my mirrors as ever. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
Perry Hall, MD | Couldn't find a 185 Potenza so I'm going with a Hankook Ventus. First time going with the darkside - hope it is a good decision.
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 22
Kokomo, IN | I notice that the Dunlop E3 tires hydroplane way to easy. They (E3) can be scary in a downpour, and I know from personal experience. I'm lucky to be alive from my experience. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
Perry Hall, MD | Commander - 2012-01-08 8:25 PM
I notice that the Dunlop E3 tires hydroplane way to easy. They (E3) can be scary in a downpour, and I know from personal experience. I'm lucky to be alive from my experience.
Good to hear that you survived Commander.
Maybe I've just been lucky but I have put quite a few highway and backroad miles on the E3s in some heavy rains and never had a problem. They can get darn squirmy (so did my pants) in a light rain when the oil deposits haven't washed off yet, but so would any other tire. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 22
Kokomo, IN | I've been through 4 sets of E3 tires. Put 22000 miles on my Vision in about a year. I have one rear E3 left in my M/C trailer. When it's gone I'll switch to Metzler. The Metzler has more grooves to displace water. I had a Metzler on my Vision (got a Cross now)for a while, but got a pointed bolt through it shortly after getting it. The reason I have extra E3 tires is because a guy on eBay had a bunch for sale and I bought all he had. Got a hell of a deal. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 142
elgin mn | Lennyb I put on a Hankook ventus v4 last july, and really like it, I dont think you will be disapointed. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 623
| +1 on Hankook Ventus.... great tire for the Vision |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 27
| just put GO19 3hr ago 195/55/16; LUV IT; DARK SIDE dark side!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | yeah i wouldnt worry about a loss of HP, hell these are touring machines not light to light racers. i had a CT on my 2008 vision, now on my 2011 i have the stock E3. i noticed its alot easier to make turns in 1st gear with a passenger (parkinglot) but already in less than 3000 miles the E3 is already starting to cup! Never had that issue when i ran a car tire. plus i remember how nice it was to keep the same rear tire for YEARS..... |
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Cruiser
Posts: 222
Barefoot Bay, FL United States | That's why I do NOT like the Elite 3. I've gone back to the Elite 2 for the reasons you explain about the center portion of the E3 tire. It's a little scary on the Maine roads when you're riding on the 1" center portion of the tire that is 1/8" higher than the rest of the tire!! |
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Cruiser
Posts: 222
Barefoot Bay, FL United States | I have seen a few threads about the dark side and trailering. I have the Hitch Doc on now, and am wondering how many trailer folks put the hitch on with the bolts going 'up' from the underside of the frame, rather than down into the frame, and holding the hitch on with nuts? It seems to me that the head of the bolt isn't protruding into the 'tire space' any more than the original bottom of the bolts that hold the trunk on. It WAS a PITA doing it that way without removing the rear tire, but I got it done, and I think it will run just fine. My question is regarding the 'tire space' with a ct. There should still be plenty of room for the larger or wider tire. Chrome IS a color!! |
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Visionary
Posts: 1228
Rancho Cucamonga, CA | If you have a HitchDoc, you need either a 185/55 or a 175/60 tire. |
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Central Wisconsin | witchbiker - 2012-01-22 9:03 AM...My question is regarding the 'tire space' with a ct. There should still be plenty of room for the larger or wider tire.Chrome IS a color!! I had a 195 width CT mounted before I installed the hitch doc.
Took it off after I installed the hitch doc because it rubbed a tiny bit on the hitch doc upper frame. Your best off with a 175 or 185 width CT. Also I have the hitch doc nuts inside the upper wheel well and clearance is a non issue.
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Cruiser
Posts: 262
Flowery Branch Ga | Just thought I would update also. Still doing good with the CT. The air pressure seems to stay more constant with the CT than with the MT. So far no problems or regrets.
Wayne |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| Any tire you have to check air each an every month to get full life out of them.
185 CT is 1/4" narrow then a 195.
If you run a 175 it will drop your bike 3/4" of a inch and you should get a short kick stand then or parking will become scare at times.
I put six thousand miles on my CT last fall and really liked the handling and the smother ride. Still did 95mph or 100mph with the same effort as before.
Yes I had to learn all over again but didn't we all have to learn over when we bought our vision's. The CT was $118 out the door where as the E3 is $200 and more and only last one year if that. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 94
milwaukee wisconsin | has any one noticed how much fuel milage you are looseing with the ct over the mt ??? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 233
flagstaff, AZ | jerrythekingpin - 2012-01-22 1:19 PM
has any one noticed how much fuel milage you are looseing with the ct over the mt ???
I did a 1000 mile ride two days after putting CT on, lost about 1mpg over the entire trip, but I was also averaging 80 mph with elevation changes from 7000' to 1500' and back. |
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Central Wisconsin | john frey - 2012-01-22 1:19 PM ...If you run a 175 it will drop your bike 3/4" of a inch and you should get a short kick stand then or parking will become scare at times. Hey John here's the spec differences between the factory 180/60/16 and the 175/60r/16 CT that some of us are running. Maybe you were thinking of something else the diameter difference is only .2". Tire size calculator
| Specification | Sidewall | Radius | Diameter | Circumference | Revolutions | Speedometer | Odometer | Difference |
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| 180/60-16 | 4.3" | 12.3" | 24.5" | 77.0" | 823/mi | 60MPH | 10000mi | N/A | | 175/60-16 | 4.1" | 12.1" | 24.3" | 76.2" | 831/mi | 61MPH | 10097mi | -1.0% |
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Visionary
Posts: 1228
Rancho Cucamonga, CA | I did not notice a difference in mpg going from MT to 175/60 CT, but it did go down when I put on lower deflectors. About 3mpg.
A new 175/60 CT has the same diameter as a worn down 180/60 MT. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 262
Flowery Branch Ga | @John-----Yes, air pressure still needs to be checked, but I have noticed that I have to add air less often since switching to a CT. Maybe because it has been warmer this year as compared to last?
@Jerry----I have not noticed (payed attention to) any any REAL difference to MPG.
Wayne |
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Tourer
Posts: 307
Columbia, SC | Any darksiders around Augusta GA that wouldn't mind me checking out their bike and possibly giving it a whirl?
I got 10k on mine, find it just fine, but am looking at increasing the commuting distance a LOT next year. It's already expensive with my 2500 mile checkups coming up every other month, and if I can save a little $$$ on tires, I'm willing to give it a shot. Just want to really see what the hoopla is about. Never done anything like this before, never considered anything like this before, but I'm thinking my situation might warrant it. Looking at about 2000 to 2500 miles a month starting in June in commuting and riding for pleasure.
Alexi
PS - Dont' have to be RIGHT around Augusta. I'll be in Atlanta next weekend, and of course, I'm not against taking a ride to get to you if you're willing (hell, I have a Vision, if you're IN augusta I'd suggest a ride anyway!) |
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Cruiser
Posts: 222
Barefoot Bay, FL United States | Thomas I put mine on the opposite, bolts going UP, for fear that the bolts would hang too far into the wheel well. Also if I want to remove the trunk, I can without disturbing the hitch. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 255
New Brunswick , Canada | witchbiker - 2012-01-24 9:35 AM
Thomas I put mine on the opposite, bolts going UP, for fear that the bolts would hang too far into the wheel well. Also if I want to remove the trunk, I can without disturbing the hitch. ?
Did the same here :-)
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Central Wisconsin | witchbiker - 2012-01-24 7:35 AM Thomas I put mine on the opposite, bolts going UP, for fear that the bolts would hang too far into the wheel well. Also if I want to remove the trunk, I can without disturbing the hitch. Sounds like a good idea if you want to take the trunk off.
If I was to take my trunk off, my wife would not ride on the Vision and I would probably be seeing double vision or not have any vision...lol!
The tire would rub on the hitch doc frame before it was to touch the threaded bolts/nuts in the wheel well. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 27
Big Sky | I have a Bridgestone Protenza GO 19 with 10k on it and really like it. It's time for a new front tire. Looking at the Michelin Pilot radial or the Dunlop E3r. What front tire works the best with a CT?
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Tourer
Posts: 337
san antonio, tx | I think when the time comes, I'm going to try a CT. Does anyone have any suggestions as to where I can get one mounted near San Antonio? |
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Tourer
Posts: 329
scotts valley, California | Before my 4000 mile Sturgis run, I mounted the Michlen Alpen on the back with a Metzler on the front. I am pretty happy with both except for on little detail. Someone on the forum had made a comment about the factory front tire looking just a tad small for the Vision and had installed the next size up on his bike, apparently successfully. I agreed and did the same. Nice ride! Going up Donner Pass about 85-90mph, I noticed a smell like burning rubber and being the not so bright chap that I am, assumed the smell was from trucks going the other direction. Below 85, the smell went away. Over 85, the darn trucks started smelling again. It took me two days and about a thousand miles to figure out that the trucks were innocent. A couple of bottom out type of bumps that made a tire yelp sound clued me in, and I finished the trip at under 85mph. It was not until I was in Sturgis that a guy asked< "Hey, what happened to your fender, man?" There was a hole burned clear through right on tdc of the front fender. I took the fender off and mailed it home.
Anyone else have this problem? or am I the only dummy in the bunch? |
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Tourer
Posts: 395
Moravia, IA | Blue Sky Guy - 2012-08-21 10:19 PM
Anyone else have this problem? or am I the only dummy in the bunch?
....raises hand.....yep - been there dont that.
Cept I figured it out a bit faster....lol.
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Central Wisconsin | Blue Sky Guy; I'm running a rear sport tire on front - Bridgestone Battlax BT45V 140/70v/18 without any fender problems. I remember it was Nozzledog that had a front fender problem with a Metzler too.
Edited by Thomas 2012-08-21 11:51 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 395
Moravia, IA | Im also running the "wider" battlax on the front - plenty of room......super tire, Ive defeintely found my "combo".
Bridgestone Battlax on the front
Bridgestone Potenza G019 Grid on the rear.....185/55-16 |
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Visionary
Posts: 1228
Rancho Cucamonga, CA | It was me, I posted the question - Was anyone running a wider tire on the front?
http://www.vision-riders.com/bb/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=9762&sta...
and got back the response - Yes, running a Battlax 140/70 without problems. I found out after about 100 miles that the Metzeler 140/70 is about 1/2" taller than the 140/70 Battlax. Got a beautiful hole in the top of my fender.
I posted warnings on several threads, guess it didn't help.
I'm still running the Metzeler, sans fender. When it wears down enough, I have a HMD fiberglass fender to put back on.
Love the feel of the 140 width though. Don't know if the Battlax will fit under the HMD fender, so it will be back to 130's for me.... too bad.
Edited by Nozzledog 2012-08-22 12:23 AM
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Tourer
Posts: 329
scotts valley, California | So, we have a new marketing opportunity.... We need a cool little hood ornament to mount over the hole.... Or should I say fender ornament.
Actually the Bobber Vision look isn't that bad. I think I'll just leave that fender off at least until the Metzler wears out. |
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Tourer
Posts: 395
Moravia, IA | Blue Sky Guy - 2012-08-22 12:37 AM
So, we have a new marketing opportunity.... We need a cool little hood ornament to mount over the hole.... Or should I say fender ornament.
Actually the Bobber Vision look isn't that bad. I think I'll just leave that fender off at least until the Metzler wears out.
I actually fabbed up some mounts and ran....gasp.....and HD metal fender.
Worked great and I actually liked it.....but then I hit a deer and it was one of the many casualties.
......running a new stocker now. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | aaronrkelly - 2012-08-22 1:43 AM Blue Sky Guy - 2012-08-22 12:37 AM So, we have a new marketing opportunity.... We need a cool little hood ornament to mount over the hole.... Or should I say fender ornament. Actually the Bobber Vision look isn't that bad. I think I'll just leave that fender off at least until the Metzler wears out. I actually fabbed up some mounts and ran....gasp.....and HD metal fender. Worked great and I actually liked it.....but then I hit a deer and it was one of the many casualties. ......running a new stocker now. this post is useless without pictures... |
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Tourer
Posts: 395
Moravia, IA | varyder - 2012-08-22 4:26 AM
this post is useless without pictures... 
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Ahhh, thank you. I recall where you posted the pictures when you did the switch. While that fender does look really good on the Vision, I would like to see a full skirt fender for the Vision, sorta Indianesque. I think it would go good with the rear full fender look as well. Still too bad we can't get white walls for the Vision. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 825
, WI | New tire? Bridgestone Potenza run flat - http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Bridgestone&tireModel=Potenza+RE960AS+Pole+Position+RFT&partnum=955WR6RE960PPRFT&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes . |
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Central Wisconsin | Rollin' - 2012-08-22 7:48 AM New tire? Bridgestone Potenza run flat - http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Bridgestone&tireModel=Potenza+RE960AS+Pole+Position+RFT&partnum=955WR6RE960PPRFT&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes . Steve the Bridgestone RunFlat looks good and will probably last more miles then the Dunlop Wintersport RunFlat. However a smaller width then 195mm is unavailable for those of us that have trailer hitches installed.
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Cruiser
Posts: 54
Bancroft Ontario, Canada | Hi folks
I have 09 vision with hitch.....can't get 175 dunlop runflats in Ontario Canada....what other GOOD CT can i run understanding my width parameters because of hitch?
Thanks
VBear |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 36
coweta ok | there's a product called ride-on that not only balances your tires but will also seal any kind of puncture. I run a potenza 195-55-16 with ride-on and nitrogen, ride is smoother than ever, rode 1600 miles to AVR and back, almost puts me to sleep, very much like this set-up  I hem and hawed over doing this for 2 years, glad I did it. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 36
coweta ok | Glad to see you went dark. I left spirit lake at 620 sun am and rolled into the driveway at 7pm sun 650 miles, shoulda keep going and pulled a Rollin |
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Central Wisconsin | VBear - 2012-08-22 1:20 PM Hi folks I have 09 vision with hitch.....can't get 175 dunlop runflats in Ontario Canada....what other GOOD CT can i run understanding my width parameters because of hitch? Thanks VBear The 185 width will clear the HitchDoc. I haven't rode on a Bridgestone Potenza but guys are reporting good results.
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Tourer
Posts: 599
New Mexico | sgiacci - 2011-04-19 10:34 PM
Braking feels a little better (or is it), and I find that I?m using more rear brake than I did in the past.? Since the front and rear are tied together I found that when I clamp on the rear brakes the whole bike will pull down and the front will begin to dive.? I couldn?t get the bike to do this with the old tire, because it would break traction before the front would start to dive. ?
Just a word of warning as I am on my second ct.
Was getting my front tire replaced today and they told me my right front brake pad was down to <10%. Left and rear pads (all replaced at the same time) were fine. I can only assume because of the linked brake system, and my using the rear brakes more due to the better stopping power of the ct, my linked right front brake wore down much quicker than I expected.
Another thing to keep an eye on.
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Tourer
Posts: 401
| I switched back to a MT.
A little over 3 years and 26,000 miles on the CT, and I had to retire it (no pun intended). It wasn't worn at all, but I felt it wasn't going to be safe to ride on in Italy. Italy has too many cobblestone roads, and if the CT followed in cracks in the US I could only guess what it would be like here.
The bike is still on the slow boat over here, but I did ride on the CT for a few weeks before I left.
The most important observation I could make was just how much I was over correcting in order to get the CT into a turn. That translated into my almost running into the curb a number of times as well as cutting turns a bit sharper right after I had the MT installed. Simply put, the Vision turns with little to no effort using a MT versus a CT, period. I also found that I had more confidence in rubbing the floor boards too.
BUT, there is still one big issue I will still need to over come in Italy - WET TRACTION. After being so used to the top notch wet traction on the CT, I almost got into trouble on the MT in wet conditions in Virginia. So much so it really pissed me off. Do tire MFG's really expect touring riders to never ride in the rain? I have a huge problem now, because the roads in southern Italy can get VERY slippery (as I found out in my Jeep) when they get wet, and the roads do not drain very well.
Now I'm stuck trying to find a good wet weather tire that can handle cobblestone roads, and I just can't find one that will fit a Vision. Any real world experience and suggestions would be great. |
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