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Indian's Liquid Cooled Motor Coming to Victory
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Street Eagle
Posted 2014-08-11 9:59 AM (#164140)
Subject: Indian's Liquid Cooled Motor Coming to Victory


Iron Butt

Posts: 691
Manchester, CT
Yesterday while visiting a local Victory dealer, he shared with us information that was shared during a recent visit to Minnesota. Victory, will be launching a bike with the same power plant used in the Indian Scout.
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Travelin Man
Posted 2014-08-11 10:39 AM (#164141 - in reply to #164140)
Subject: Re: Indian's Liquid Cooled Motor Coming to Victory


Iron Butt

Posts: 721
Now that would be a mistake! Think of GM back in the '80s, the only difference between a Chevy, Buick, Pontiac, and Oldsmobile were SLIGHTLY different fenders, lights, and interiors, otherwise they were all mechanically the same. Many people don't realize it but this policy of sharing the same basic designs between brands is one of the major factors that finally brought GM down in 2009.

Polaris would have been better off to delay the Indian Scout until another clean sheet engine design was ready instead of taking the engine that was being prepped for a new Victory design and turning it into an Indian. NOW, Victory needs to come up with an entirely new design for a liquid cooled engine apart from that being used by Indian, perhaps even go with something like a small displacement V-4 or such, something that would knock the socks off of the competition in the middleweight cruiser division, say a 1000cc engine that puts out 140 horsepower at 10,000 rpm. THAT would draw younger riders to the Victory brand versus the "heritage" styling of the Indian brand.
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wingit3611
Posted 2014-08-11 10:47 AM (#164142 - in reply to #164140)
Subject: Re: Indian's Liquid Cooled Motor Coming to Victory


Cruiser

Posts: 244
I'd be the first one inline for a small water cooled v4!
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Arkainzeye
Posted 2014-08-11 12:33 PM (#164146 - in reply to #164140)
Subject: Re: Indian's Liquid Cooled Motor Coming to Victory


Visionary

Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA
Victory's take on water cooling from a few years ago. (scroll to 3:00) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K9ps3H4Vdo
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johnnyvision
Posted 2014-08-11 6:29 PM (#164156 - in reply to #164140)
Subject: Re: Indian's Liquid Cooled Motor Coming to Victory


Visionary

Posts: 4278
It would make cents that Indian is the guinea pig for the water cooled Vic's. I can see the boardwalk coming back with water. The gunner is a after thought I think to feel a void for the time being.
The Vic factory is not that big even with the new addition for all the models there pushing out. I was shocked when they closed the Osceola plant. Its way bigger then Spirit Lake
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Oldman47
Posted 2014-08-11 8:30 PM (#164163 - in reply to #164140)
Subject: Re: Indian's Liquid Cooled Motor Coming to Victory


Tourer

Posts: 573
Central Illinois
The day they issue a water cooled V4 engine for a Vision or similar bike is when I will consider moving on. I had a very good experience with my Yamaha 1300 cc water cooled V4. It would just get up and move at almost any RPM. They didn't even give you a tach because you didn't need one. All power desired was right there at your right wrist at any reasonable engine speed. By comparison my Vision is a bit doggy but has enough power for my needs and has features that the Yamaha did not have.
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varyder
Posted 2014-08-11 8:33 PM (#164164 - in reply to #164140)
Subject: Re: Indian's Liquid Cooled Motor Coming to Victory


Visionary

Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA

Ok, so a friend went to Sturgis and said at the Victory display there was a liquid cooled bike, with a radiator and a Victory badge. I told him he was mistaken, but he insisted he saw it. Who might know what he saw?



Edited by varyder 2014-08-11 8:34 PM
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Arkainzeye
Posted 2014-08-11 9:38 PM (#164170 - in reply to #164140)
Subject: Re: Indian's Liquid Cooled Motor Coming to Victory


Visionary

Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA
amen Varyder !! my last (xx) bikes were h2o cooled !! and almost all of them had some issues.. either 1) coolant leak from loose hose 2) over heated due to air in the system or thermostat 3) increased maintenance
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Vladezip
Posted 2014-08-12 12:43 AM (#164176 - in reply to #164141)
Subject: Re: Indian's Liquid Cooled Motor Coming to Victory


Glendale, AZ United States
Travelin Man - 2014-08-11 9:39 AM

Now that would be a mistake! Think of GM back in the '80s, the only difference between a Chevy, Buick, Pontiac, and Oldsmobile were SLIGHTLY different fenders, lights, and interiors, otherwise they were all mechanically the same. Many people don't realize it but this policy of sharing the same basic designs between brands is one of the major factors that finally brought GM down in 2009.

Polaris would have been better off to delay the Indian Scout until another clean sheet engine design was ready instead of taking the engine that was being prepped for a new Victory design and turning it into an Indian. NOW, Victory needs to come up with an entirely new design for a liquid cooled engine apart from that being used by Indian, perhaps even go with something like a small displacement V-4 or such, something that would knock the socks off of the competition in the middleweight cruiser division, say a 1000cc engine that puts out 140 horsepower at 10,000 rpm. THAT would draw younger riders to the Victory brand versus the "heritage" styling of the Indian brand.


I see what you're saying, but HD has been sharing the same basic engine design and setup between models since day one with immense success. With that being said, "HUGE" Disappointment with the new Roadglide roll out as far as I'm concerned...If this will not get the younger folks on board or at least start looking at other motorcycle brands don't know what will.

I also don't believe GM will go bankrupt either anytime soon. If anything GM has been posting significant profits prior to the huge recall blunder, which should not break the company financially either.

V-4 Engine design? In my opinion this is a huge undertaking both from an research and development standpoint and financial for a company who is has been producing Vtwins since day one. If it was me, I would stick with what works and continue to further refine and develop the Victory Vtwin powerplant. Peace, Vlad.
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Travelin Man
Posted 2014-08-12 2:51 PM (#164192 - in reply to #164176)
Subject: Re: Indian's Liquid Cooled Motor Coming to Victory


Iron Butt

Posts: 721

Vladezip - 2014-08-12 12:43 AM Travelin Man - 2014-08-11 9:39 AM Now that would be a mistake! Think of GM back in the '80s, the only difference between a Chevy, Buick, Pontiac, and Oldsmobile were SLIGHTLY different fenders, lights, and interiors, otherwise they were all mechanically the same. Many people don't realize it but this policy of sharing the same basic designs between brands is one of the major factors that finally brought GM down in 2009. Polaris would have been better off to delay the Indian Scout until another clean sheet engine design was ready instead of taking the engine that was being prepped for a new Victory design and turning it into an Indian. NOW, Victory needs to come up with an entirely new design for a liquid cooled engine apart from that being used by Indian, perhaps even go with something like a small displacement V-4 or such, something that would knock the socks off of the competition in the middleweight cruiser division, say a 1000cc engine that puts out 140 horsepower at 10,000 rpm. THAT would draw younger riders to the Victory brand versus the "heritage" styling of the Indian brand. I see what you're saying, but HD has been sharing the same basic engine design and setup between models since day one with immense success. With that being said, "HUGE" Disappointment with the new Roadglide roll out as far as I'm concerned...If this will not get the younger folks on board or at least start looking at other motorcycle brands don't know what will. I also don't believe GM will go bankrupt either anytime soon. If anything GM has been posting significant profits prior to the huge recall blunder, which should not break the company financially either. V-4 Engine design? In my opinion this is a huge undertaking both from an research and development standpoint and financial for a company who is has been producing Vtwins since day one. If it was me, I would stick with what works and continue to further refine and develop the Victory Vtwin powerplant. Peace, Vlad.

 

I wasn't referring to sharing the same engine amongst different models of the SAME brand, I WAS referring to using the same engine on bike from two, as of now, distinctly DIFFERENT brands, those being Victory and Indian.

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Arkainzeye
Posted 2014-08-12 6:11 PM (#164195 - in reply to #164140)
Subject: Re: Indian's Liquid Cooled Motor Coming to Victory


Visionary

Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA
im not poking at anyone, but i have to giggle at the comment of.. "I also don't believe GM will go bankrupt either anytime soon. " Didn't Government Motors ALMOST go bankrupt a few years ago? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_Chapter_11_reorganizati... and i think they are in the possible of filing for protection AGAIN..
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Travelin Man
Posted 2014-08-13 10:56 AM (#164208 - in reply to #164195)
Subject: Re: Indian's Liquid Cooled Motor Coming to Victory


Iron Butt

Posts: 721

Arkainzeye - 2014-08-12 6:11 PM im not poking at anyone, but i have to giggle at the comment of.. "I also don't believe GM will go bankrupt either anytime soon. " Didn't Government Motors ALMOST go bankrupt a few years ago? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_Chapter_11_reorganizati... and i think they are in the possible of filing for protection AGAIN..

 

+1!!!

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savage
Posted 2014-08-14 6:34 AM (#164231 - in reply to #164142)
Subject: Re: Indian's Liquid Cooled Motor Coming to Victory


Cruiser

Posts: 228

wingit3611 - 2014-08-11 10:47 AM I'd be the first one inline for a small water cooled v4!

I already have one, it's called a VMax and it is way too much fun!!!

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XRsteve
Posted 2014-08-14 6:14 PM (#164253 - in reply to #164140)
Subject: Re: Indian's Liquid Cooled Motor Coming to Victory


Visionary

Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta
I like this engine from what I've read. It could be brought over to Victory in a sporting model in a few different guises. If they sleeve the engine it could be as small as 750cc or they could stroke it and make it a 1350cc street Hooligan like the KTM 1290. Just recast the side of the heads either void of the "I" or add a "V"..............Just put in a better more modern mono shock frame.
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sonicbluerider
Posted 2014-08-14 7:53 PM (#164258 - in reply to #164140)
Subject: Re: Indian's Liquid Cooled Motor Coming to Victory


Tourer

Posts: 576
, IA
Yep a 1100cc
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Rick 106
Posted 2014-08-15 7:06 AM (#165258 - in reply to #164140)
Subject: Re: Indian's Liquid Cooled Motor Coming to Victory


Cruiser

Posts: 55
Water cooled is better than air cooled. Air cooling is on the way out due to the poor efficiency of that design. I think the air cooling of my Vision is its worst point.
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IndyVision
Posted 2014-08-15 7:42 AM (#165259 - in reply to #164140)
Subject: Re: Indian's Liquid Cooled Motor Coming to Victory


Tourer

Posts: 400
I'm no expert when it comes to engines, but Victory's air/oil cooled design seems to be simple and it works. Just look at the 100K and 200K bikes on the road. I wonder about maintenance and reliability on a liquid cooled bike.
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XRsteve
Posted 2014-08-15 7:46 AM (#165260 - in reply to #164140)
Subject: Re: Indian's Liquid Cooled Motor Coming to Victory


Visionary

Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta
AND it's not like Indian has a lock on this type engine. Similar (around 60 degree) V-twins with DOHC have been used by Aprilla, Harley Davidson, KTM, Buell and the race bike by John Britten. It's a great engine and depending on size can make power up to 180 rwhp depending on tune.

Edited by XRsteve 2014-08-15 7:48 AM
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rwilly
Posted 2014-08-15 8:24 PM (#165289 - in reply to #165258)
Subject: Re: Indian's Liquid Cooled Motor Coming to Victory


Tourer

Posts: 523
seattle, wa
Rick 106 - 2014-08-15 5:06 AM

Water cooled is better than air cooled. Air cooling is on the way out due to the poor efficiency of that design. I think the air cooling of my Vision is its worst point.


While I agree water cooling is superior to air cooled, the look of air cooled cylinders is how bikes are supposed to look. The best looking motorcycle engine IMO is the Shovelhead, nothing too shiny, raw aluminum, no chrome.

I like the idea of water cooled heads, with cylinders that have cooling fins.
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varyder
Posted 2014-08-15 9:05 PM (#165292 - in reply to #164140)
Subject: Re: Indian's Liquid Cooled Motor Coming to Victory


Visionary

Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA
I think air cooled on a motorcycle is perfect. Given the drawbacks only makes those who ride a little more creative in when and how we ride. I don't like all the distractions on the bike that takes away the essences of riding. The Scout is the first wc bike that I would buy on purpose.
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