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Harley D. has a promising new engines
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johnnyvision
Posted 2016-09-02 6:24 PM (#188706 - in reply to #188701)
Subject: Re: Harley D. has a promising new engines


Visionary

Posts: 4278

Victory 106 is not rated that high. It has 83 horse to the rear wheel 

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rdbudd
Posted 2016-09-04 10:14 AM (#188726 - in reply to #188706)
Subject: Re: Harley D. has a promising new engines


Visionary

Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO
johnnyvision - 2016-09-02 6:24 PM

Victory 106 is not rated that high. It has 83 horse to the rear wheel?



Technically, you are correct, but the numbers are still about even. Both factories report crankshaft horsepower. Both will produce about the same at the rear wheel. These new Harley engines may give Victory a little competition. That's good. Victory may up their game again.

BTW, while mine did produce about 83 at the rear wheel, it now is in the 110 range with just $1290.78 spent to get there, including a professional tune.

Try that with a Harley.

Ronnie

Edited by rdbudd 2016-09-04 10:21 AM
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XRsteve
Posted 2016-09-04 12:57 PM (#188727 - in reply to #188572)
Subject: Re: Harley D. has a promising new engines


Visionary

Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta
I like that Harley is pushing their envelope. Is it still a push rod engine ?? Yes, but it really doesn't matter in the rpm range these engines operate in. One bad thing is it's still a three piece crank, there can be longevity issues there. The 4 valve heads are a great improvement. One area they made sure of is the new engine is Euro 4 compliant And Victory's touring bikes ARE NOT for 2017. That will require a change or band aid of some type by Polaris. Hey maybe we'll get a new engine....

Edited by XRsteve 2016-09-04 12:59 PM
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V92SC
Posted 2016-09-04 1:40 PM (#188728 - in reply to #188572)
Subject: Re: Harley D. has a promising new engines


Tourer

Posts: 324
New Orleans, La,
XRSteve, it is my greatest wish that Victory would up their game and solve the Euro problem and give their customers and the market at large. My hope would be to take the existing Octane/Scout engine blueprint and enlarge it to 106 cu.in. saving on R&D and time to get a proven design to market. I think that would be the most economic way to go. Imagine a 106 version of the existing liquid cooled engine replacing the air/oil cooled engine currently available.
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johnnyvision
Posted 2016-09-04 5:52 PM (#188731 - in reply to #188572)
Subject: Re: Harley D. has a promising new engines


Visionary

Posts: 4278
stock 107 HD



(dyno.jpg)



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Attachments dyno.jpg (50KB - 1 downloads)
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rdbudd
Posted 2016-09-05 8:12 AM (#188736 - in reply to #188731)
Subject: Re: Harley D. has a promising new engines


Visionary

Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO
That's actually pretty good for right out of the box.

This is what a 100% stock Victory 106 did back in 2008.

Ronnie



(48-106-Vision3.jpg)



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Attachments 48-106-Vision3.jpg (47KB - 1 downloads)
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Sergbutton
Posted 2016-09-06 7:26 AM (#188766 - in reply to #188572)
Subject: Re: Harley D. has a promising new engines


Puddle Jumper

Posts: 11
Eldersburg, MD United States
I wonder if the pushrods have a big effect on the sound, because my Yamaha Roadstar sounded a LOT like a harley, and it is about the only Foreign bike that has them, AND the Indian 111 is a pushrod bike also.

Harley sound is distinctive, so I think they will be hard pressed to move away from pushrods if they feel it will hurt the sound.

Let face it, until Harley makes a substantially more powerful engine than the 106, we might just be out of luck for a new engine

I guess Victory simply did too good of a job engineering the 106.
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Arkainzeye
Posted 2016-09-06 7:36 AM (#188767 - in reply to #188572)
Subject: Re: Harley D. has a promising new engines


Visionary

Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA
your yamaha probably had a single pin crankshaft as well.. just wondering... how OLD is the Freedom 106 now?
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rdbudd
Posted 2016-09-06 9:35 AM (#188768 - in reply to #188767)
Subject: Re: Harley D. has a promising new engines


Visionary

Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO
Arkainzeye - 2016-09-06 7:36 AM

your yamaha probably had a single pin crankshaft as well.. just wondering... how OLD is the Freedom 106 now?


The Yamaha is a single crankpin, which is why it "sounds like a Harley". I believe the Freedom 106 was introduced with the new Vision in 2007, as a 2008 model. It was being talked about in 2006--2007.

My Vision was built on 11-20-2007, and there were Visions on the street before that. I looked at some non-running prototypes that were making the dealer circuit a year earlier.

Harley engineers apparently have been looking intensely at the Victory engine for design ideas................

Ronnie
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Arkainzeye
Posted 2016-09-09 7:00 PM (#188880 - in reply to #188728)
Subject: Re: Harley D. has a promising new engines


Visionary

Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA
The Harley engine is nothing like the victory engine.. unless you call a 4 valve per head design Victorys idea ??

http://ridermagazine.com/2016/09/08/2017-harley-davidson-milwaukee-...
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Arkainzeye
Posted 2016-09-09 8:16 PM (#188881 - in reply to #188572)
Subject: Re: Harley D. has a promising new engines


Visionary

Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA
https://youtu.be/7DqCYcOVrPE
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jimtom
Posted 2016-09-10 5:29 AM (#188884 - in reply to #188880)
Subject: Re: Harley D. has a promising new engines


Visionary

Posts: 1308
Sand Rock, AL United States
It does look like a home run for the Moco. The first HD I would consider? Maybe but I doubt it. I still hate to have something that looks like everyone else's and every other HD ever made. But, that's just my personal thing. I like to be different from 100 ft away not just discernible from 10 feet away by only the HD educated about the engine lineage.
The journalist ripped this one line off of Indian. It was one of there campaign lines almost word for word " one that honors the past, embraces the future"
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rdbudd
Posted 2016-09-10 10:53 AM (#188887 - in reply to #188880)
Subject: Re: Harley D. has a promising new engines


Visionary

Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO
Arkainzeye - 2016-09-09 7:00 PM

The Harley engine is nothing like the victory engine.. unless you call a 4 valve per head design Victorys idea ??

http://ridermagazine.com/2016/09/08/2017-harley-davidson-milwaukee-...

I never said that the new Harley engine was "like the Victory engine". You said that--not me. . I said they looked at the Victory engine for design ideas, which they did.

Of course, Victory, and many other manufacturers, have looked at previous design ideas all along. Things like the 1918 Twin City 12-20 farm tractor, for example, which featured twin cams and four valves per cylinder http://twincitytractors.tripod.com/1220.htm

Ronnie
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V92SC
Posted 2016-09-10 2:12 PM (#188889 - in reply to #188572)
Subject: Re: Harley D. has a promising new engines


Tourer

Posts: 324
New Orleans, La,
I recently talked with a die in the wool HD guy that recently test rode the new Milwaukee 8. He complained, as many other core big twin owners, that the new engine is "too smooth". One of the main engineering targets for HD was to reduce NVH and they hit the target bulls eye. In fact they did what Victory had to do with the first V92 engine and that was to add some vibration because they bot engineered all of the primary vibration characteristic to a large bore twin clean right out of the engine. HD did it to not alienate it's core group but at the same time appease the new potential customers that possibly never rode a big twin before and looking for a more refined and less fatiguing riding experience. Victory's reason was that the target market wanting something that mimicked the big twin experience since they were getting feed back from current or ex HD riders when fine tuning the V92 and subsequent engines. I for one would have wished Victory would have gone with electric motor smooth high torque V twin. Not that my Vision isn't smooth quiet the contrary. My Vision is as smooth at highway rpm as my transverse mounted inline 4 Suzuki G1000G. I agree with a previous post that the new HD engine is a quantum leap for them in all aspects but compared to the 106 Freedom it's at best pulled even with it. Reliability and longevity TBD. Lastly I would like to see an American transmission that engaged with out a clunk but more a snicker. I realize that many Victory owners find the clunk reassuring that the bike has engage the gear selected but for me I prefer the snicker of the BMW/GW trans gear changer. All in all I wish Victory would make as large a quantum leap in NVH with the Freedom engine and transmission as HD did with their new engine.
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Arkainzeye
Posted 2016-09-12 7:11 AM (#188893 - in reply to #188572)
Subject: Re: Harley D. has a promising new engines


Visionary

Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA
I have friends in the past would never consider Harley-Davidson as an option but now consider them something to look at. Some of the comments on her it was if they build a power plant like this, with performance #'s "close to" victory, BUT have the amazing an outstanding dealer Network with accessories and options that surpass any other manufacturer on the planet why not consider them now as a contender ? Even aftermarket companies like Power Commander, they make a lot more Superior Products for HD but for nobody else.
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