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Victory vs Indian
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Tom13
Posted 2017-01-15 6:39 AM (#191353)
Subject: Victory vs Indian


Cruiser

Posts: 67
I had the pleasure of talking to someone that is very close to Polaris Industries yesterday and just from a few things said I tend to believe that Victory is just going through a name change of sorts. Think about it, after looking at the Indian lineup this year and also the Victory it is amazing how many parts are interchanged between the two bikes. Everything from front suspension to belts and brake set ups. After talking to this person (Polaris is very protective of information so as to not get them in trouble) I was told that Indian sold three times more bikes than Victory did the last two or more years. With that said and they being built at the same factory it stands to reason why Polaris Industries has made this decision. However they are also very interested in expanding the Indian name into the future market. After seeing the new info systems (much like HD has) available on the 2017 Indians for this year it started to make sense in what pieces of information I was told. To me I believe that to carry 2 brand names in not cost effective to build at the same factory. With dealership floor plan costs, the decision to let Victory go was made based on the sales of the new Indian brand name. I was also informed by some at the Indian dealer display that Indian would like to come out with a more modern up to date styling version which to me could very well be where our beloved Victory lineup could show up again but with Indian as the headliner for the name. Lets face it Polaris Industries did not spend millions of dollars to ramp up production at Spirit Lake unless they had a plan. That plan included potential sales. Indian has some really incredible looking retro prototype bikes and is feeling out the market in some sense all of these bikes having the Victory motor installed. It will be very interesting to see how all of this plays out but one thing for sure some of the dealers are dumping the Victory name like a hot rock and deals will be had by those not afraid of riding off into the Sunset..... Peace out Ride on
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huts'putt
Posted 2017-01-15 12:52 PM (#191354 - in reply to #191353)
Subject: Re: Victory vs Indian


Cruiser

Posts: 55
Racine, WI United States
It would be great if Indian is able to design a fixed fairing bike,a.k.a. Vision, into their lineup of bikes. I had a '13 Vision, fantastic bike, but the wife was a little uncomfortable on it. She would find herself sliding forward after twenty miles or so, and always had to keep repositioning herself, also, no place to rest her elbows, and I did have the arm rests on. We test rode a Roadmaster, and granted the leg room was a little less for me, the sitting for the wife was much better than on the Vision. Also, the RM seemed to ride a little smoother than the Vision. All that being said, we got the RM. Yes, I do miss the Vision, and really do wish that Indian will design and manufacture a fixed fairing bike, a.k.a. Vision, and add it to their stable of bikes. I would be one of the first to switch to the fixed fairing if they do it. Till then, I'll enjoy riding with my wife and the Roadmaster. But,,,,, if I can talk the boss into it (lol), I'll someday own another Vision for solo riding.
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varyder
Posted 2017-01-15 2:54 PM (#191356 - in reply to #191353)
Subject: RE: Victory vs Indian


Visionary

Posts: 8140
New Bohemia, VA

I got my Indian Vision.





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Arkainzeye
Posted 2017-01-15 8:01 PM (#191358 - in reply to #191353)
Subject: Re: Victory vs Indian


Visionary

Posts: 3728
Pittsburgh, PA
personally i wouldnt put must trust into what someone very close to polaris says.. why? we have heard this before.. people have said i know a guy who knows a guy that is the CEO's gardens mechanic ... and they said that the Vision was getting a over haul, or redesigned etc etc.. on this forum there has been A LOT of people that know someone in polaris.. and they always have insiders secrets of whats coming, and now look... so ..... and lets face it.. indian has had a very hard time PROVING themselves to NOT be a victory... so many people were saying its just a victory or just a polaris... they did everything they can to NOT be "us".. so i dont see them all the sudden doing the very thing they tried so hard not to be.. and then there is that Indian styling... without that "look" its just another motorcycle in my opinion.. but.. i have been wrong before
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johnnyvision
Posted 2017-01-16 6:09 PM (#191369 - in reply to #191353)
Subject: Re: Victory vs Indian


Visionary

Posts: 4166
If they pulled the plug on victory what makes you think there not going to plug on indian.
Soon the electric bike will take over
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Don07tncav
Posted 2017-01-17 4:08 AM (#191370 - in reply to #191353)
Subject: Re: Victory vs Indian


Cruiser

Posts: 190
Naa, the slingshot.
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obm
Posted 2017-01-18 11:41 AM (#191376 - in reply to #191370)
Subject: Re: Victory vs Indian


Puddle Jumper

Posts: 15
i was thinking about an indian for my next bike but i may have to look at h-d now. i don't trust polaris and their customer service is not very good
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varyder
Posted 2017-01-20 5:34 AM (#191381 - in reply to #191376)
Subject: Re: Victory vs Indian


Visionary

Posts: 8140
New Bohemia, VA

Despite the perception of Polaris' customer service, the bike is such an incredible build that it requires very little service. I've never had to do anything major, but I've done most of my own work through the years, 9 and counting,  with 201,800 miles on the clock. There is enough aftermarket folks who can fully support your bike, and warranties will still be in effect on the new machines that Victory is still a great buy. Of course you have your right to choose whatever you like to ride, personally I might own an old sporty for nostalga, but Harley has never spun my crank.

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lennyb
Posted 2017-01-20 10:15 AM (#191382 - in reply to #191381)
Subject: Re: Victory vs Indian


Iron Butt

Posts: 725
Bel Air, MD
My dealer is advising customers that they will continue to support Victory owners with service and parts that Polaris will continue to supply for another 10 years. As with a number of others I have been waiting for the next generation Vision model, but so much for discussions about what changes to expect. My thought is to get a new windshield, have the bike vinyl wrapped, and detail everything else then enjoy my new look that continues to offer everything I've come to appreciate about the best bike I could ever want to ride.
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obm
Posted 2017-01-22 9:59 PM (#191390 - in reply to #191353)
Subject: RE: Victory vs Indian


Puddle Jumper

Posts: 15
i've got 80,000 miles on my vision with very few problems. the question is there aren't many dealers now, how many will be around in the future and if you are in the middle of ne or s. dak and your starter or alternater go out or you have have an electrical problem who will be able to take care of it. being stranded in the middle of nowhere with no dealer any where around sucks.
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Arkainzeye
Posted 2017-01-26 7:41 AM (#191398 - in reply to #191353)
Subject: Re: Victory vs Indian


Visionary

Posts: 3728
Pittsburgh, PA
That is a great point...and that very thing happened to me in 2008 with my kawasaki ... but for me there was a dealer close.. but the parts had to come from japan..so my trip was "game over "
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Oldman47
Posted 2017-01-31 1:28 PM (#191419 - in reply to #191369)
Subject: Re: Victory vs Indian


Tourer

Posts: 573
Central Illinois

What electric bike? Indian doesn't have one of those. It is part of the cost being charged to Victory so they could justify discontinuing the brand to stockholders.

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IndyVision
Posted 2017-01-31 1:50 PM (#191421 - in reply to #191353)
Subject: Re: Victory vs Indian


Tourer

Posts: 397
I completely agree with you Oldman47. Add the plant expansion / new paint shop, R&D on the liquid cooled motor, electric bike racing, drag racing. It's easy to make a company look like the are losing money. All of these were within the last few years. so rack up a huge debt, blame it on Victory, shut them down, and move everything over to Indian. Let's not forget that Indian was brought to market quicker and cheaper using all the knowledge gained from Victory. Nobody at Polaris wants to bring that up. I like how the Victory facebook page was basically shutdown 48 hrs after the announcement. Too many post I guess. The number of likes and following on the Victory facebook page was also increasing, so we can't have that. I truly do like seeing all the negative comments on Indians Facebook articles. Indian facebook articles have replies from Indian telling Victory owners about parts and service for 10 years.
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Arkainzeye
Posted 2017-02-01 7:53 AM (#191427 - in reply to #191353)
Subject: Re: Victory vs Indian


Visionary

Posts: 3728
Pittsburgh, PA
I saw where victory was trying to sell that electric bike for $10000 off list price
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SteveS
Posted 2017-02-01 1:38 PM (#191430 - in reply to #191427)
Subject: Re: Victory vs Indian


Cruiser

Posts: 148
Danbury, Connecticut
Arkainzeye - 2017-02-01 7:53 AM

I saw where victory was trying to sell that electric bike for $10000 off list price

Spend all that money to buy that company that created those electric Empulse bikes, dump more money into creating a racing program for it. Jump into NHRA drag racing and promote the hell out of it. Give the electric bikes away well below cost. Jeez guys, why isn't our Victory line making any profit. Should we sell it off to someone that gives a schidt. Nah, just shutter the operation. Outstanding management, fellas. PII shares were 2.5x HOG shares not too long ago, now just below 1.5x HOG per share. Screwed around with the front fender issue instead of getting out in front of it, recall after recall on their ATVs, people can't even use some of them due to fire risk. They did a lot of things right for a while, but it looks like the accountants are in charge of the designers. Oh well, Vic was awesome while it lasted.
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Don07tncav
Posted 2017-02-01 8:48 PM (#191433 - in reply to #191353)
Subject: Re: Victory vs Indian


Cruiser

Posts: 190
A classic example of how poor management can run a company into the ground.
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lennyb
Posted 2017-02-03 7:11 AM (#191441 - in reply to #191356)
Subject: RE: Victory vs Indian


Iron Butt

Posts: 725
Bel Air, MD
varyder - 2017-01-15 3:54 PM

I got my Indian Vision.



Hey Chris,

What's up with the extra set of switches sitting over the clutch fluid reservoir? I've seen people move them, but don't recall adding a set.
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SteveS
Posted 2017-02-03 10:37 AM (#191443 - in reply to #191441)
Subject: RE: Victory vs Indian


Cruiser

Posts: 148
Danbury, Connecticut
Not Chris but the second switch is intercom/CB control.
http://cdn.powersportstv.com/326535_6_2009_Victory_Vision_Tour_10th...
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varyder
Posted 2017-02-07 7:18 PM (#191459 - in reply to #191443)
Subject: RE: Victory vs Indian


Visionary

Posts: 8140
New Bohemia, VA

SteveS - 2017-02-03 11:37 AM Not Chris but the second switch is intercom/CB control. http://cdn.powersportstv.com/326535_6_2009_Victory_Vision_Tour_10th...

What he said. I also switched from the stock position, the radio controls are on the top, the CB on the bottom. Makes it easier to adjust volume when sitting a light with the clucthed disengaged.

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bigwill5150
Posted 2017-02-14 12:57 PM (#191475 - in reply to #191459)
Subject: Re: Victory vs Indian


Iron Butt

Posts: 720
Reno County, KS
It's been a long, long time since I've logged in here. Personally; when I got then news of Victory discontinuing production, my first thoughts were that my bike value was going to diminish to nothing. Then I realized if I hung onto the bike, it would make it more unique than the other cookie cutter options.

Of course I realized the parts were going to dry up eventually. Think of finding a Vision body panel in a few years after some jackass kicks gravel at it in a parking lot.

But to add insult to injury, Polaris thinks I'm going to run to Indian. WTF??? Polaris just did this and they think previous owners are going to pump $$$ into another of their brands to let it happen again?

You'd have to be a completely ignorant putz to take a kick in the teeth like this then take your money back to same parent company for another serving.

BMW, another Harley or maybe even a straight up metric is in my future but Polaris isn't even an option.

Edited by bigwill5150 2017-02-14 1:01 PM
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Haze_Gray
Posted 2017-02-15 10:54 AM (#191480 - in reply to #191353)
Subject: Re: Victory vs Indian


Cruiser

Posts: 50
Virginia Beach, VA
I'm not looking at Polaris for a replacement in the future. Especially after hearing all the negative issues with costly recalls they are dealing with in the 4 wheel and Slingshot market. I here from a reliable source that Yamaha will be coming out with it's Venture replacement this summer. No ideas on what it will be equipped with. That Strato Liner 113 V Twin has plenty of power and torque to it. Hopefully they will go with a 6speed overdrive transmission. Then Harley seems to be stepping up a little now that Indian is giving them a push. I have 2-3 years before I start looking. Should be some interesting new stuff out there by then.
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8_Ball_Budzo
Posted 2017-02-17 12:09 PM (#191491 - in reply to #191353)
Subject: Re: Victory vs Indian


Puddle Jumper

Posts: 9
Blackfalds, AB Canada
Hi Tom13. I appreciate you getting some of the low down from the inside. But quite frankly Polaris has really fk'n pissed me off. I'm not sure if you know the history of Indian. First of all, they STOLE all of their innovations in the beginning, from the HD guys, and did it in a not so nice way. So that does not sit well with me at all from the get go. Now the Indian line of bikes as had a very rocky come back. I think they tried to make a come back 5-6 years ago, and couldn't make it. They look old, and have stayed looking old as hell, Not for me. So then along comes Polaris, picking up a bike line that Yes, has some history. And possibly a certain look. Not for me, but what ever. So Polaris Industries then sinks a shit load of money and R&D into the line. Taking away any new developments from the Victory line. And kinda putting the 'Making Great Strides in the world of Biking" is one quote that I read, Victory bike line. The Vic's have proven that they are built better, ride better, No more numb hands or butts. Don't drip oil like a old gigalo with a case of the drips. Are very affordable, and are proving to be one great looking, great bike. So Polaris says, HMMM, it looks like this bike line is standing on it's own. Lets put it on the back burner and focus on this new to us, but really fk'n ugly old looking bike line that seems people want. And we'll throw away some bucks at a vehicle that we can't decided if it's a car or a motorcycle. At least that's what the cops are trying to figure out. ( Slingshot). But back to my rant. Scott Wine and his bad management team look at nothing but dollars. And the Indian line is new on the circuit with a Proven Victory design behind it. Proven engineering in Spirit Lake. Hey lets drop the awesome Victory line and put more dollars into R&D and marketing and get the "Culture" to battle the HD lovers of the world. And of course the Indian line starts selling more bikes that Victory. It's because they are awesome, and don't break down. But they forgot to think, past the end of their nose, about the people that are coming up behind us. Our children. I have three. So that's three more Victory bikes to my one. Multiply that by how many men and women are on this site alone. And you have your Culture, your extra sales. That will punt HD and BMW and Indian and every other bike line out of the water. Why, cause we Love Victory. And we'll have our children ride the best damn bike on the planet because of it. All they had to do was put some dollars into R&D and Marketing and they could have had their culture. It takes time. I have gone into a Indian bike store and looked around. Each and EVERY time I walk in there, the sales people are rude. They think their sh*t doesn't stink and they want 15 to 17 grand MORE for the same type of bike. For what. so that Scott Wine can line his pockets with more money. Man I'm so pissed off. And sorry, I might even get kicked out of here for my rude language. But I hope you contact your buddy in Spirit Lake, and tell him just how pissed off we are. How many times did HD start to go into the toilet, and they hung on. Scott Wine and his management team are nothing but the rubber crap that comes off my tires as I"m doing a burn out. Rolled up sticky sh*t.
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8_Ball_Budzo
Posted 2017-02-17 12:23 PM (#191493 - in reply to #191353)
Subject: Re: Victory vs Indian


Puddle Jumper

Posts: 9
Blackfalds, AB Canada
And then you look at what the Racing end of the Victory line is doing. Only two years at the Pikes Peak race. And have climbed to the podium in the Second year. What other bike line has done that. Matt Smith and his wife on the drag racing circuit. Taking names and kicking butt. And getting wins. The TT race on the Isle of Man. The Electric bike has taken the world by storm. I even think they were on the podium there as well. It's VICTORY that is on the side of the tank. Not a picture of an Indian getting rammed from behind. I guess it's a really good thing that I'm not anywhere close to Spirit Lake Iowa. I'm sure I would have been thrown in jail by now. But seriously. As you can tell, my opinion is that they really screwed up. And now, if they think that they are going to change the badge on the side of the tank of a Cross Country or Vision or any other bike in the Vic line to read Indian. Well they won't be getting my dollars. How foolish will they look. And then the laughter from the HD crowd. It'll be an uproar.

Look at the Octane vs the Scout. The Octane kicked the crap out of it. And it's pretty much the same bike. Dumb Dumb management from Wine team.

Ok. I"m done. UGH
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IndyVision
Posted 2017-02-17 3:13 PM (#191494 - in reply to #191353)
Subject: Re: Victory vs Indian


Tourer

Posts: 397
I completely agree. I've ridden Victory for 15 years and am starting to get in arguments on Facebook with people saying to get over it. You're spot on about Indian. They took Harley technology that didn't have a patent, pt a patent on it, and then sued Harley. Look what's happened now. Take all the Victory engineering, free of cost, and use it to develop Indian. Then end Victory Motorcycles. History basically repeated itself to a degree. I talked with a dealer who has sold Victory since 1999. This dealership asked their Polaris rep about Victory models under the Indian name. Don't be surprised if you see Victory models rebadged as Indian within two years. Limited models starting out. Maybe the XC bikes, including the Magnum, the Highball, and possibly the Vegas.
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huts'putt
Posted 2017-02-17 4:54 PM (#191496 - in reply to #191494)
Subject: Re: Victory vs Indian


Cruiser

Posts: 55
Racine, WI United States
If your getting your information about Indian stealing production ideas from harley came from watching the latest movie offering from the history channel, then your wrong. Indian actually was the first company to produce a v-twin and offered it in 1906, whereas harley's first v-twin wasn't built till 1909. Let's face it, both harley and Indian stole ideas from each other, but, when it came to real innovation, Indian was far ahead of harley.
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