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Notchy/sticky/sometimes not down shifting
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baadawg
Posted 2012-11-29 6:14 PM (#127725)
Subject: Notchy/sticky/sometimes not down shifting


Tourer

Posts: 498
Chattanooga, TN
Just thought I'd put this out there in cyberspace. I've been noticing my downshifting getting worse over time. The primary has always been a bit noisy on my bike, being an '08. But lately it's inablilty to downshift reliably has been more of concern to me. The shifting is worse going from 4th all the way down to 1st. Neutral has been elusive, and sometimes the only way I can get it in neutral is to turn the bike off, then try to put it in neutral. All in all, it's been getting harder and harder to ride. The local wrench said it was my clutch. I've never heard of a clutch failing without some slippage, which I don't have. I finally ordered a Barnett clutch from Lloydz and installed it today. It is freaking awesome. Everything shifts great now, and the primary seems quieter. Unfreaking believable! If you're having the previously mentioned symptoms but no clutch slippage, it still can be the clutch. Everything else I went through in the primary looked fine. Torque compensator, shift lever etc. The plates actually looked fine that I removed, except for a little burnt looking, darker brown in a few places. BTW the dealer replaced the clutch with only 112 miles on the bike due to a warped housing leaking oil on the showroom floor and I now have over 38k on it. My wrench pulled up the service record for my bike and that was how I found out about it. It appeared to be a good install on their part, but now it is so much better. 
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pollolittle
Posted 2012-11-29 7:27 PM (#127729 - in reply to #127725)
Subject: Re: Notchy/sticky/sometimes not down shifting


Visionary

Posts: 2017
Brighton, TN
Very cool. I saw that clutch on his site, wasnt sure if i needed it. So, is the shifting smoother, less clunky, easier finding neutral etc!
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Lotzafun
Posted 2012-11-30 8:40 AM (#127757 - in reply to #127725)
Subject: Re: Notchy/sticky/sometimes not down shifting


Iron Butt

Posts: 935
Rockford, IL
Is this what you installed.......... http://www.lloydz.com/store/item_view.asp?estore_itemid=1000035

How was the install as far as difficulty? And about how long? Any special tools needed?
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MaddMAx2u
Posted 2012-11-30 9:23 AM (#127759 - in reply to #127757)
Subject: Re: Notchy/sticky/sometimes not down shifting


Iron Butt

Posts: 876
Orlando, FL
Wow. I have always heard people rave about Barnett Clutches. Nice to hear to worked well for you.
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baadawg
Posted 2012-11-30 4:00 PM (#127784 - in reply to #127757)
Subject: Re: Notchy/sticky/sometimes not down shifting


Tourer

Posts: 498
Chattanooga, TN
Lotzafun - 2012-11-30 9:40 AM Is this what you installed.......... http://www.lloydz.com/store/item_view.asp?estore_itemid=1000035 How was the install as far as difficulty? And about how long? Any special tools needed?

 Yes, that's the one. Pretty cheap for the improvement it made. I was thinking I needed to replace the torque compensator assembly which I priced the parts (parts only) at over $800 for the one they are presently installing in the new bikes. That's really expensive for a gear, a sleeve, 2 piece torque compensator and a few other parts. Crazy expensive. Really glad the fix was only $180 plus shipping and a few hours of my time! I've never done a clutch before, but I can follow instructions pretty well. 

 As for tools, the ones most people may not have and need in addition to the common ones every guy has are:

 30mm socket with torque wrench capable of 125 ft./lbs

 Good quality internal and external snap ring pliers(not harbor freight)

 Engine lock tool-or be willing to use a large steel flat blade screwdriver(not chrome plated-it will chip and get in the engine) between the gears while you torque the assembly properly

 Clutch plate compressor

 I have the 2010 service manual I downloaded from another member from this site a few years ago, and it was perfect. I did not add the spacer behind the clutch plate as recommended by my 2010 service manual, I don't know if the manual has since has been revised but when I spoke with the Vic Mechanic to get a part number, he looked at the current manual he has online and it wasn't even pictured or mentioned. I layed the bike on its side and did not need to change the oil as I didn't lose any. I really like the fact I can now use Amsoil for 5,000 miles, not invalidate my warranty, and not have the risk of clutch slippage! Also glad I had some nylon trim tools from harbor freight I used when removing the primary housing, the magnet around the stator is pretty strong and my left index finger got drilled into a few days ago while I was making some shelves in the garage, I have a few stitches in the tip of it now. Even if it were well, something to help pry it away from the magnet would be helpful and I hate scratching chrome. I took my time and did it in about 5 hours, reading every page of the manual as I went along, step by step. The shop can do it in about an hour or so. But they have done it before (more than a few times) and this was my first time. Good luck, it's a great easy winter project!



Edited by baadawg 2012-11-30 4:01 PM
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johnnyvision
Posted 2012-11-30 4:56 PM (#127794 - in reply to #127725)
Subject: Re: Notchy/sticky/sometimes not down shifting


Visionary

Posts: 4273
baadawg
If you still have the package can you tell me what Barnetts part number is
Thanks
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SYNSTR
Posted 2012-12-01 8:06 AM (#127825 - in reply to #127725)
Subject: Re: Notchy/sticky/sometimes not down shifting


Iron Butt

Posts: 785
Mt. Vernon, WASH.
You mean I'm not the only one who's had a nagging issue with downshifting? Since day 1 my '08 has an intermittent issue with the tranny, on more than one occasion going from third to second or second thru neutral to first the shifter lever acts like it's not attached to anything it just sort of flops around and feels like the flush handle on a toilet after flushing, just kinda waggles around feeling unattached to anything mechanical. It's becoming somwewhat of an issue in increasingly heavy street traffic. And I have under 10K on the bike soooo-
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baadawg
Posted 2012-12-01 9:26 AM (#127828 - in reply to #127725)
Subject: Re: Notchy/sticky/sometimes not down shifting


Tourer

Posts: 498
Chattanooga, TN
Part no. 303-85-20001
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wedgebolt
Posted 2012-12-06 6:36 AM (#128126 - in reply to #127825)
Subject: Re: Notchy/sticky/sometimes not down shifting


Puddle Jumper

Posts: 11
Savannah, GA United States
Your not the only one with this problem. I have an 09. I love the bike except for the the shifting. I was thinking of getting rid of it and buy another Yam or Honda. I am going to give this a try. I will let you all know the results. Thanks for the info.
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pollolittle
Posted 2012-12-06 9:46 AM (#128138 - in reply to #127725)
Subject: Re: Notchy/sticky/sometimes not down shifting


Visionary

Posts: 2017
Brighton, TN
baadawg - Could you please respond to the following: So, is the shifting smoother, less clunky, easier finding neutral etc!? I read your post, maybe I didn't read enough into what you wrote. Now that you have had it for awhile?
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baadawg
Posted 2012-12-06 6:35 PM (#128159 - in reply to #127725)
Subject: Re: Notchy/sticky/sometimes not down shifting


Tourer

Posts: 498
Chattanooga, TN
1. Shifting seems smoother, better gear engagement, can control the friction zone better.
2. It goes clink instead of clunk when I put it in gear, not as loud as before. I'm used to American bikes doing this more loudly than their counterparts.
3. I can find Neutral whereas I was completely unable to do that before with the engine running.
Sidenote: Sometimes when quickly coming to a stop, it still will not easily downshift, the pedal goes to the floor but nothing happens and I have to let the clutch out just a bit and retry. Also, occasionally the pedal seems to have mechanical interference going from 4th to 3rd and cannot be pressed down very far, but it downshifts anyway as I intended it to. I am addressing this with Victory and will update you. I'm sure I am not the only one with this issue. I don't know this for sure, but I suspect it may have something t do with the shift ratchet assembly. Nothing new, only better since going with the Barnett clutch.
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pollolittle
Posted 2012-12-06 9:02 PM (#128164 - in reply to #127725)
Subject: Re: Notchy/sticky/sometimes not down shifting


Visionary

Posts: 2017
Brighton, TN
Thanks, i wonder what the differences are that allow the barnett clutch to perform so much better
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baadawg
Posted 2012-12-09 5:38 PM (#128231 - in reply to #127725)
Subject: Re: Notchy/sticky/sometimes not down shifting


Tourer

Posts: 498
Chattanooga, TN
I'm not sure, po. The Vic mechanic felt like the clutch was not slipping as much as it should when pulling the lever in. Like it was grabbing a bit too soon. His theory was that it was causing the gears to have a slight bit of tension on them preventing it from shifting properly. My question to him was that if this is what is happening, isn't the slave cylinder at fault rather than the clutch? He had no answer, and I replaced the clutch anyway and voila! I took the wife unit out this weekend on a toy run and we didn't have a single issue downshifting. Nice. This is how it should be. I'd still like to hear from either Vicbuilder or KevinX if they know what could be causing the occasional lack of downshift. It was almost every stop prior to replacing the clutch and now it is only an occasional issue, but it isn't totally gone.

Edited by baadawg 2012-12-09 5:43 PM
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Blue Ice
Posted 2013-04-07 8:47 AM (#134359 - in reply to #128231)
Subject: Re: Notchy/sticky/sometimes not down shifting


Puddle Jumper

Posts: 14
Billings, Montana
Good info. My '09 is in the shop with the same issue right now.
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baadawg
Posted 2013-04-07 1:12 PM (#134367 - in reply to #127725)
Subject: Re: Notchy/sticky/sometimes not down shifting


Tourer

Posts: 498
Chattanooga, TN
It's was not covered under warranty, since it is considered a wear item so I did it myself. You will need the Polaris tool( Clutch spring compressor PV-45032) to do it if you decide to. Or once removing the clutch basket, take it to your dealer and let them install the clutch in the basket for a nominal fee. Don'r know why, but they said it just didn't slip enough when the clutch was disengaged. I was skeptical, but they must have been right.
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johnnyvision
Posted 2013-04-07 6:27 PM (#134381 - in reply to #127725)
Subject: Re: Notchy/sticky/sometimes not down shifting


Visionary

Posts: 4273
Just a suggestion before spending that money make sure your fluid is new and your master cylinder is full. Check your slave cylinder to see if its pulling all the way.

baadawg
thanks for the p/n I had a friend check into it and it appears to be just for victory's
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Blue Ice
Posted 2013-04-26 6:10 PM (#137670 - in reply to #134367)
Subject: Re: Notchy/sticky/sometimes not down shifting


Puddle Jumper

Posts: 14
Billings, Montana
After three weeks of waiting (one tech quit so down to one) it is one of the friction plates that is coming apart. Told him to go with the Barnett as I didn't want to pay $500 for the Victory plates. Hope it's back home next week. Good thing I still have the Jackpot to ride!!
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Blue Ice
Posted 2013-05-09 9:18 PM (#138687 - in reply to #137670)
Subject: Re: Notchy/sticky/sometimes not down shifting


Puddle Jumper

Posts: 14
Billings, Montana
Appears that the clutch was the issue with mine too. With the only tech taxed out, it took 5 weeks to get it done. Luckily the weather was not great and I was out of town for a week. Shifts just like it did last fall. All operations back to normal. Even with their markup on the Barnett, total cost was still less than just the cost of the Victory plates including the oil change. Thanks for the info. :-)
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V92SC
Posted 2013-05-10 7:40 AM (#138695 - in reply to #127725)
Subject: Re: Notchy/sticky/sometimes not down shifting


Tourer

Posts: 323
New Orleans, La,
Baadawg how much does the clutch tool cost? I ask because since this is a procedure that I will probably never repeat I'm trying to weigh buying the tool vs. taking the clutch to the dealer for install of the plates. Also do you have the part no.? A pic of the clutch compression tool also please if possible,Thanx.
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johnnyvision
Posted 2013-05-10 6:09 PM (#138716 - in reply to #127725)
Subject: Re: Notchy/sticky/sometimes not down shifting


Visionary

Posts: 4273
Not sure but we use to pull adjuster bolt put big washer on put bolt back in tighten nut down till it forces spring inn pull retaining ring loosen nut and start pulling plates
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baadawg
Posted 2013-05-10 9:45 PM (#138723 - in reply to #127725)
Subject: Re: Notchy/sticky/sometimes not down shifting


Tourer

Posts: 498
Chattanooga, TN
I tried to price the tool recently, and was given several unreliable figures. It's worth about $70 new. You would have to buy it through a dealer though and it is up to their discretion. I'd recommend removing the clutch basket, take it to them and let them use their tool to replace the innards. A friend was recently charged $35 for this, way cheaper than the tool costs!
p.s. If you go this route, remember to take the snap ring with you as they will need it to remove the old clutch

Edited by baadawg 2013-05-10 9:47 PM
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bwhittaker
Posted 2014-10-04 2:55 PM (#167193 - in reply to #127725)
Subject: RE: Notchy/sticky/sometimes not down shifting


Puddle Jumper

Posts: 9
, FL
Has anyone found a definitive SOLUTION with this. I have gotten used to the downshifting problem. My problem is more a "falling out of 1st gear" without me knowing its in neutral. a week ago in the smokies I finally dumped the bike. Got to get this fixed. Its long been a sloppy and loose shifter.

Not staying in first gear is becoming downright dangerous. Im downright afraid of 1st gear since I dumped it. My wife was on the back and I either got to find a proper solution or get rid of the bike.

Any ideas??

Thanks

Skipper Semper FI
Hobe Sound FL
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johnnyvision
Posted 2014-10-04 6:34 PM (#167195 - in reply to #127725)
Subject: Re: Notchy/sticky/sometimes not down shifting


Visionary

Posts: 4273
here is the clutch spring tool
http://www.amazon.com/Motion-Pro-Clutch-Compressor-08-0137/dp/B000G...
this is the tool to lock the clutch hub in place
http://www.amazon.com/Harley-David-Primary-Drive-Locking/dp/B005CWA...
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bigwheel72
Posted 2015-03-09 8:00 PM (#170139 - in reply to #127757)
Subject: Re: Notchy/sticky/sometimes not down shifting


New user

Posts: 2
I have a Victory Vegas 8-ball and I was having similar clutch problems. Then I ordered that part you mentioned(the one for my model) and there one thing that stood out when it arrived. In the manual there is a special friction outer plate( friction clutch plate) that goes on top of all the other plates, and it was not in the kit. I checked the parts for your bike too and I noticed that it was also required for your bike. did you install this or not?





Attachments
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Attachments Doc1.docx (44KB - 3 downloads)
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baadawg
Posted 2015-04-19 11:41 AM (#171968 - in reply to #127725)
Subject: Re: Notchy/sticky/sometimes not down shifting


Tourer

Posts: 498
Chattanooga, TN
Items 6-11 should have been in the kit. Re-use the other parts if I remember correctly.
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