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Tourer
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| Yep, Victory said they were developing a similar bike back in 2008 during a 10 anniversary presentation. And nothing 5 years later |
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Visionary
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New Bohemia, VA | I think Victory would have a hot seller if they did a miniture V92 or TC |
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Visionary
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Georgia, west of Atlanta | Here's what I've read so far : Let's start with the engine, a liquid-cooled 60-degree V-twin whose chain-driven single overhead camshafts operate four valves per cylinder via roller rockers with screw adjusters. ( Very similar to our Victory 106's ) Called the Revolution X, this all-new powerplant, with a vertically split crankcase and plain bearings, is a modern design that traces its lineage back to the V-Rod of 2001. Jeff Coughlin, Harley's chief powertrain engineer, says a 60-degree design was chosen to help reduce the height of the wet-sump engine, which helps keep seat height and center of gravity low, important considerations given that the Street is seen as a first bike for many potential customers.Separate aluminum cylinders are fitted with pressed-in iron liners, and the only difference between the 500 and 750 versions, which share a 66.0mm stroke, is the bore. The 500?s is 69.0mm, which makes for an actual displacement of 494cc. The 750's bore, at 85.0mm, makes for a displacement of 749cc. Redline for both engines is 8,000 rpm, and peak power for the 750, though not officially announced, was said by one Harley rep to be 54 hp at 7,500 rpm, with 44 pound-feet of peak torque arriving at an unspecified rpm. A single balance shaft keeps the V-twin from shaking too much, and a six-speed transmission works with Harley's belt drive.
Why is this important ? If Harley can build this engine it can create a big brother in the 95-100 cu inch range, Power a next generation RoadGlide with a stock " Big twin" that has 130 HP and 120 lbs Tq. Good grief that would blow all current twin cylinder touring engines out of the water..........
Edited by XRsteve 2013-11-05 12:05 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Add some comfort in the seat and you'll have a hoooooooootttttttt seller. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | XRsteve - 2013-11-05 10:00 AM .Separate aluminum cylinders are fitted with pressed-in iron liners, and the only difference between the 500 and 750 versions, which share a 66.0mm stroke, is the bore. The 500?s is 69.0mm, which makes for an actual displacement of 494cc. The 750's bore, at 85.0mm, makes for a displacement of 749cc. Redline for both engines is 8,000 rpm, and peak power for the 750, though not officially announced, was said by one Harley rep to be 54 hp at 7,500 rpm, with 44 pound-feet of peak torque arriving at an unspecified rpm.......... Sounds like they almost reach the level of my 1980's 750cc 60+ HP, 520lb Yamaha Viragos (which would EASILY whoop any HD in those years) - Ahhh - progress !!! |
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Visionary
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Georgia, west of Atlanta | donetracey - 2013-11-05 12:47 PM
XRsteve - 2013-11-05 10:00 AM .Separate aluminum cylinders are fitted with pressed-in iron liners, and the only difference between the 500 and 750 versions, which share a 66.0mm stroke, is the bore. The 500?s is 69.0mm, which makes for an actual displacement of 494cc. The 750's bore, at 85.0mm, makes for a displacement of 749cc. Redline for both engines is 8,000 rpm, and peak power for the 750, though not officially announced, was said by one Harley rep to be 54 hp at 7,500 rpm, with 44 pound-feet of peak torque arriving at an unspecified rpm.......... Sounds like they almost reach the level of my 1980's 750cc 60+ HP, 520lb?Yamaha Viragos (which would EASILY whoop any HD in those years) - Ahhh - progress !!! ?
First thing I thought was the current line of Kawasaki Vulcans. But that's not the point. It's a new style Harley.. Yeah the old timers won't like it. That's not the target market and Harley like all large corporations don't care about 50+ year old customers. They are preparing for the future. One big difference between the Viragos, Vulcans and Suzuki C50's: Harley will sell more in three years in the Indian market than all the Japanese Harley wantabe twins ever made...............
Edited by XRsteve 2013-11-05 4:10 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | Indian TS 111 dyno sheet vs Harley 110 waterhead:
Indian : 106 ft lbs @ 2800 rpm and 77.7 HP @5200 rpm.
Harley : 98 ft lbs @ 3700 and 84.8 HP @ 5400 rpm.
The engines are very close in size and bore & stroke. The difference in these stock engine outputs is probably due to cam duration and timing. The Indian makes more bottom end and the Harley pulls a little harder on top. Oh boy The Harley- Indian wars are about to begin again................
Edited by XRsteve 2013-11-15 9:43 PM
(Dyno graph stock Indian TS111.jpg)
(dyno graph 2014 110 water head stock (4).bmp)
Attachments
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 Dyno graph stock Indian TS111.jpg (151KB - 1 downloads)
dyno graph 2014 110 water head stock (4).bmp (191KB - 2 downloads)
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Visionary
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Georgia, west of Atlanta | Heads are very comparable in airflow capabilities. If you notice their cylinder filling is amost equal at 3750rpm. The Indian is making 100 ft lbs and the Harley 98 ft lbs. About as close as you can get in the upper mid range....... Now We'll have to wait and see what head porters can do with the TS, we know what they can do with the TC.................Let the games begin..........
Edited by XRsteve 2013-11-16 10:20 AM
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Visionary
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Jasper, MO | XRsteve - 2013-11-16 10:20 AM
Heads are very comparable in airflow capabilities. If you notice their cylinder filling is amost equal at 3750rpm. The Indian is making 100 ft lbs and the Harley 98 ft lbs. About as close as you can get in the upper mid range....... Now We'll have to wait and see what head porters can do with the TS, we know what they can do with the TC.................Let the games begin..........
True.
However, a really nice fellow who used to be a well respected Harley tuner before he made the switch to Victory about 14 or 15 years ago will probably have some ideas on better fuel management and flow management (cams) for the Indian TS111. I believe he has already purchased his own Indian and is playing with it in Pine Bush now.
Ronnie |
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Visionary
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Georgia, west of Atlanta | Yes, will be very interestin to see what Lloyd can do with a TS111. It will not be as easy as hopping up a Victory though, The heads on a Victory are light years ahead of either a Harley or Indian. I believe to uncork all the potential the complete intake tract including manifold, ports and valve pockets will have to be ported. I'm sure if Lloyd isn't a porting expert he'll find someone who is. I think this is very cool. Like I've said before " Let the games begin".................By the way I use Lloyds products on both my Visions, Great stuff...........
Edited by XRsteve 2013-11-17 5:55 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | I'd like to see Lloyd get an Indian on the race track in the upper class races, as well as Victory. I'm sure Indian will produce a motor more apt to that application though, that will be a force to reckon with. I think the Victory motor is an engine capability of doing that, but for what ever reason, it's not made it on the cover of the Rolling Stones. My mind keeps swinging around to getting an Indian, I can pull the trigger today, but I'm not convinced that is my next bike. Even so, if I was to saddle up a Vintage, it would remain stock as my Vision. I don't think the dependability is there once the shell is cracked and doohickeys are installed. It's like fast times at Ridgemont, it's fun while it lasts... |
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Tourer
Posts: 573
Central Illinois | varyder - 2013-11-05 11:08 AM who decided? I wasn't in on that meeting. On a warm summer day, the roads are swarming with 650-1100cc japanese bikes. Now why would you go to your Kaw-Suk-Hon-Yam dealer when dad, mom, son, and daughter can all go to the Harley store for bikes, one for all, and appearel. See, compromise is good. Win-win... Maybe HD will come out with a riding tennis shoe... A warm summer day? That is also the only time I see many larger bikes like Goldwings, Ultra Classics, Road Glides, Ventures, Cross Countries and Visions. The sheer number of fair weather only riders astounds me.
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Visionary
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Georgia, west of Atlanta | Comparison of Chieftain and Streetglide in Cycle World magazine ( January issue )....... |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Oldman47 - 2013-11-17 8:31 AM varyder - 2013-11-05 11:08 AM who decided? I wasn't in on that meeting. On a warm summer day, the roads are swarming with 650-1100cc Japanese bikes. Now why would you go to your Kaw-Suk-Hon-Yam dealer when dad, mom, son, and daughter can all go to the Harley store for bikes, one for all, and apparel. See, compromise is good. Win-win... Maybe HD will come out with a riding tennis shoe... A warm summer day? That is also the only time I see many larger bikes like Goldwings, Ultra Classics, Road Glides, Ventures, Cross Countries and Visions. The sheer number of fair weather only riders astounds me. I put anyone who owns a motorcycle into four basic categories, I put anyone who rides into 3 categories. Nothing bad, you just got to know who you're talking with.
Edited by varyder 2013-12-01 4:32 PM
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Indian vs Victory
