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Tourer
Posts: 401
| Let’s cut though the BS opinions and talk about an honest assessment. So if you are going to comment then comment on what is a factual review, not what you think or feel, or heard. I’m sick of hearing about “experienced” riders who pontificate about the dangers, instability, and risks there are in using a car tire when they have never ridden on one. IMHO they are full of crap. Also, screw the reasons why I would want a car tire, because it really is none of your damn business.
I reached a point here of the meaningless banter that I finally just got POed enough to go and mount a car tire, and give it a try. I have been riding for 35+ years now, and that alone should give me a little credibility. I have also owned and ridden many different types of bikes, so I have a good understanding of what different bikes do.
Here is my initial review (400mi):
2008 Vision setup - 36psi in the tire, 30 psi in the shock riding 1 up, and 40 psi in the shock riding 2 up. 1 up load is about 220#. 2 up touring is about 460#. All comments will be compared to the old Dunlop that came with the Vision.
1 up riding is where I see the biggest difference.
Riding straight the road surface is much more noticeable. Road camber pushes the bike to one side or the other, and you need to compensate for it. Road grooves, cuts, expansion joints become those slots that your little slot cars needed to stay on the track, and again you need to compensate. Steel bridges also like to pull the rear tire long their grating. Gravel and sand are a different story. Instead of the tire plowing into the gravel or sand it rides up on top of it and feels amazingly controlled. Pulling my bike in and out of my garage onto the gravel driveway has gotten much easier.
To sum up straight line riding – if you have a nice smooth road you have to adjust a little more for road camber. If you have the crap roads like many of us do then the bike will have a mushy wobble or osculation, and you will likely get used to it (I am).
Now for the turns… This is where I was completely floored (or floor boarded). Bit by bit I got used to how to put the bike into a turn, because the linear consistency of force wasn’t there. Instead the force was more exponential with more force being required to initialize the turn with a gradual reduction as you pushed over, but returning the bike upright required very little effort as you exit the turn. What amazes me the most is the traction, I haven’t been able to break it yet, and I fear that when I do I will have reached both mine and the bikes limits. With my old MT I would get more drift in the same turns and speeds. Go figure.
Parking lot maneuvering (walking) is the same, but slow speed maneuvering needs a little more input to get the bike to turn. No the bike will not stay upright on the flat of the tire, so I don’t recommend you try it.
Braking feels a little better (or is it), and I find that I’m using more rear brake than I did in the past. Since the front and rear are tied together I found that when I clamp on the rear brakes the whole bike will pull down and the front will begin to dive. I couldn’t get the bike to do this with the old tire, because it would break traction before the front would start to dive. I find this a little unsettling when I break in a turn, because I can’t get that little bit of drift to bleed off speed before bringing the bike into a straight line stop.
The ride seems to be smoother, but much less crisp than before. The best analogy I can use is that it is like an old school Cadillac that has that mushy meandering ride.
2 up riding is very much like 1 up, but straight line riding is very different.
Instead of following every crack or deformation the ride is more settled with a light osculation, but steel grates react the same. Vertical stability is increased and it tends to handle the higher center of gravity you have with a passenger and a full trunk with less snap.
My next step is to drop the air in the tire down to 32psi to see if I can get the ride I get with 2 up riding.
In my view “my” verdict is still out, but I was NOT expecting the tire to perform the way it has so far.
I will be back and add comments when I drop the air pressure.
Edited by sgiacci 2011-04-19 11:36 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | Thanks for the review. I am riding E3's now but I have always kept an open mind about the possibilities of riding on the dark side.
Ride Safe! |
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Cruiser
Posts: 185
Rhode Island | I think many of us would like a longer wearing tire with a tread pattern that handled wet roads better, the problem has always been the concern of loosing performance and handling. Looking forward to your comments after you dial in the air pressure settings and get a few thousand miles on it.
Thanks for the info.
Jim |
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Cruiser
Posts: 156
Bluff Park, Alabama - God's Country! 2011 PW VV | Which tire are you reviewing? And Size please sir. |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| Most dark siders are running a Bridgestone Potenza G019 with 195/55-16 thats the same as you elite 3's if your running a trailer hitch its a 185/55-16
I have been doing my research for the last 5 months and can not find any thing bad about the car tire. Yes there are few that say this and that not what they would like but not one has taken the car tire off. If you go to a goldwing site watch out cause there so many running car tires you would think there a car.
I have looked and one car tire is $115 bucks where the elite 3 is $ 275 ruffly. So motorcycle tire get 15 thousand mile and the guys say the car tire on a bike is about 25 thousand miles.
As soon as the elite 3 is done for I'm going to the darkside. I'm thinking I will be learning how to ride again but then I have all summer to learn.
Darsiders say "Once you go dark you will not go back" 
Edited by john frey 2011-04-21 1:01 PM
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 28
| Your review is a lot like many others I hve seen with the key phrase being something to the effect of "it's something to get used to". That phrase sums it all up for me...and that is darkside is not something that's for me. The funny thing is one can "get used to" to almost anything. This includes things like being in prison, living on the streets, being a prisoner of war, not showering for weeks or months, etc.
I do appreciate your factual assessment of your experience. Lots of people are fine with getting "used to" riding the dark side and if that floats your boat, more power to you. For me, I'll stick with the tried and true and very well proven motorcycle tire. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 215
orrick, mo | I've ridden myVV about 24000 miles on a ct and have no plans to change. I will admit that the ct does take some getting used to but like anything new it always does. even when I but a new mt on the bike takes some getting used to again and breaking in. Its probley because I get every mile I can out of a tire safely before i change it. IMHO with the ct once you find a good psi to your liking you won't really want vary much. too much air and the bike feels tippy and not enough kinda mushy. 36psi works for me
The debate on ct or mt is like the debate Victory or Harley not matter what side your on some people will
never even concede a single virtue to the other. You just can't change a closed mind.
Ride safe all. |
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Tourer
Posts: 432
Gettysburg, 2008 Tour Premium | After spending some time reading the post's on the Goldwing Darkside forum I ordered a Falken on the observation of a GL1800 rider that it handles closest to a M/C tire and his riding some of my states more demanding roads. Looking forward getting the tire on next week.
The falken reported to be very sticky, V rated (148 MPH) and with a little stiffer sidewalls.
Thanks for your report. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 185
Rhode Island | I have never run a ct on any bike but I have taken a short ride on a friends bike a wider rear tire (Yamaha Raider) and initiating a turn was much different than anything I was used to. So the question I have is would there be any cornering/handling difference between the 185/55-16 and the 195/55-16; I realize it is a small size difference but if 2lbs of air makes a difference it made me wonder if this would also.
Thanks,
Jim |
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Tourer
Posts: 401
| ghostssx - 2011-04-20 10:05 PM
Which tire are you reviewing? And Size please sir.
Bridgestone Potenza G019 with 195/55-16 |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 29
| hammo - 2011-04-21 8:23 PM
Your review is a lot like many others I hve seen with the key phrase being something to the effect of "it's something to get used to". That phrase sums it all up for me...and that is darkside is not something that's for me. The funny thing is one can "get used to" to almost anything. This includes things like being in prison, living on the streets, being a prisoner of war, not showering for weeks or months, etc.
I do appreciate your factual assessment of your experience. Lots of people are fine with getting "used to" riding the dark side and if that floats your boat, more power to you. For me, I'll stick with the tried and true and very well proven motorcycle tire.
Having to 'get used to something' isn't necessarily a bad thing. When I first test rode my XC I had never ridden a fairing bike before and not being able to see the road right down in front of me was a little dis-orienting at first however the rest of the test ride was awsome. Having to never 'get used to something new' is only for those that never want change in anything. I'm seriously considering going DS when my rear wears out. If I don't like it I'll just switch back and the world won't be turned up-side down because I tried it.
Edited by 40vegas 2011-04-22 5:38 PM
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 24
Hanover, Md | I have had a DS tire on my Vision for about 5,000 miles now, and I love the ride. I knew when I bought the Vision that I would put a car tire on it with the first tire change, because I had had one on my Kawi Vulcan for 15,000 miles. I pretty much knew what to expect. What I have found is that all tires have limitations and areas where they excel. For me, the positives far outweigh the negatives. The heels of my boots can attest to my lean angle with this tire. I consistently drag them from up on my pegs. Good luck to you. |
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Tourer
Posts: 401
| hammo - 2011-04-21 8:23 PM
Your review is a lot like many others I hve seen with the key phrase being something to the effect of "it's something to get used to". That phrase sums it all up for me...and that is darkside is not something that's for me. The funny thing is one can "get used to" to almost anything. This includes things like being in prison, living on the streets, being a prisoner of war, not showering for weeks or months, etc.
I do appreciate your factual assessment of your experience. Lots of people are fine with getting "used to" riding the dark side and if that floats your boat, more power to you. For me, I'll stick with the tried and true and very well proven motorcycle tire.
"Getting used to", is a true statement, but it isn't as bad as it sounds, since the changes are minor. It will change how a Vision handles, and one of the big selling points of the Vision is the handling. Not wanting to change that is something I can respect.
Edited by sgiacci 2011-04-23 6:31 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 599
New Mexico | sgiacci - 2011-04-19 10:34 PM
I will be back and add comments when I drop the air pressure.
Getting ready to buy my first set of tires for the Vision. Going to stick with Elite 3 on front, but maybe darkside on rear.
Still happy with your decision?
Edited by Boots 2011-05-02 9:46 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 1228
Rancho Cucamonga, CA | Has anyone tried a 175/60-16? It would seem that being narrower, it would fit better for those with a hitch. Less chance of hydroplanning. More sidewall to allow for flex and still have a wider contact patch than the MT. It is also designed for 5" rims and has a closer diameter to stock. |
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Central Wisconsin | Nozzledog - 2011-05-02 12:03 PM Has anyone tried a 175/60-16? It would seem that being narrower, it would fit better for those with a hitch. Less chance of hydroplanning. More sidewall to allow for flex and still have a wider contact patch than the MT. It is also designed for 5" rims and has a closer diameter to stock. Yes...Just installed a Dunlop SP Winter Sport 175/60r/16.
Seems to handle VERY well. I'm running 36lbs. It probably will wear a little faster then the other CT's account of being a winter tire.
My bike odometer is right on with the GPS odometer now.
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Visionary
Posts: 1228
Rancho Cucamonga, CA | keep me posted, that is the tire I want. only 3-4k left on my E3. |
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Tourer
Posts: 366
Albuquerque, NM | Anyone running dynabeads in a CT? If so, how many oz. are required for the above combo? thanks...
Edited by nailer 2011-05-03 7:47 AM
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Tourer
Posts: 401
| nailer - 2011-05-03 7:41 AM
Anyone running dynabeads in a CT? If so, how many oz. are required for the above combo? thanks...
I was about to run them, but counldn't justify the effort. You can't see the rear wheel, and I don't run the bike on really bad roads. I almost never throw weights, so I didn't do it. |
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Tourer
Posts: 401
| Instead of dropping the air pressure, I bumped it up to 38# (from 36#). I’m amazed at how much just a minor change in pressure effects how the bike rides with the car tire. With a motorcycle tire I never really noticed a change in performance until there was a difference of 5-10#.
So I will cover only what has changed?
Running straight is better, and the road camber issue is almost gone. Grooves and joints have less of an affect as well. The mush is tighter, and the oscillation is gone.
The turns seem snappier and the force is less exponential, but it still doesn’t have the consistency an MT has. Traction is still amazing, but there is a little more bounce in hard turns. This makes sense since the higher pressure is translating the bumps into the shock versus absorbing them.
In general, the ride has improved, but I have only run it 1up. So I will be back when I do some loaded 2up riding.
The most important observation I have is that minor tire pressure changes yield big results, and I don’t think a one pressure will fit all riders like a MT can come close to doing. You will need to tune the tire pressure (up or down) to get ride characteristics that are to your liking.
Edited by sgiacci 2011-05-03 9:29 PM
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Central Wisconsin | nailer - 2011-05-03 7:41 AM Anyone running dynabeads in a CT? If so, how many oz. are required for the above combo? thanks... Yes...I'm using 3oz's in the rear CT and 2oz's in the front .
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Cruiser
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Chesterfield, VA | Steven, that is exactly the same conclusion I came to with the Potenza. I started off at 32 PSI , which was the pressure that most seem to recommend, but found it to be mushy and somewhat loose feeling. I ended up running the CT between 38-40 PSI and found the ride to be much better (comparable to a MT). After switching back to the E3 ( because I installed a hitch) the major difference I find is that it takes less pressure to initiate a response...almost as if you only have to think of the input and the bike responds (I know this doesn't make much sense).
I intend to go back to a CT that will work with the hitch at my next tire change. |
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Tourer
Posts: 401
| sarvbill - 2011-05-04 7:09 AM
Steven, that is exactly the same conclusion I came to with the Potenza. I started off at 32 PSI , which was the pressure that most seem to recommend, but found it to be mushy and somewhat loose feeling. I ended up running the CT between 38-40 PSI and found the ride to be much better (comparable to a MT). After switching back to the E3 ( because I installed a hitch) the major difference I find is that it takes less pressure to initiate a response...almost as if you only have to think of the input and the bike responds (I know this doesn't make much sense).
I intend to go back to a CT that will work with the hitch at my next tire change.
Until some one runs on a CT it wouldn't make sense, but I understand now. Now matter what all the CT guys say a MT is much more reponsive, but that really dosen't matter to me. The bike still responds extremely well for how I intend to ride it.
BTW - Thank you for the tire, it was a pleasure meeting you.
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Tourer
Posts: 395
Moravia, IA | nailer - 2011-05-03 7:41 AM
Anyone running dynabeads in a CT? If so, how many oz. are required for the above combo? thanks...
Im running 3oz in the car tire and 2oz in the front....but since your already breaking the bead might I suggest a cheaper alternative to Dynabeads.
Airsoft pellets.....$10 buys you a HUGE tub.....enough to do over 50 tires. The downside is that they will NOT fit thru the valve stem.....so you must break the bead to get them in there. No problem if your changing tires, your in there anyways.
......Ive taken them out of tires after 20K miles and they still look fine - they work just the same as Dynabeads. |
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Tourer
Posts: 412
Fargo, ND |
Aaron,
Please help me understand what exactly the 'airsoft pellets' are, where you get them and how much of them to use.
Thanks! |
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The Dark side review
